This should be the face of modern politics. They can get on with it, we can watch and cheer, with no threat to our safety.
Firstly - no one has said Russia hasn't been lying. If they had said that then they would be lying as it's confirmed it was - just had a google and the only thing i see on yakovenko and russia is that: - they deny producing novichok - they won't accept what the OPCW say if its not transparent - i don't see anywhere where they say that it was fake or that no nerve agent was used second - PD said they knew what it was, they didn't say where it came from. Wheres the direct quote that PD said it was from russia? Boris said that PD told him it was the russians. I accept he might have other circumstantial information but it didn't come from PD which he used to say as evidence for it being from russia
I think we all should try and discuss this slightly differently from now on. Until now, it's been an impassioned debate, where emotion has spilled over. This isn't QPR v Chelsea. Let's scrutinise the facts from now on, in all of our interests. We all agree OPCW says PD got their analysis right. Agree? Do they say it was novichok? Think so. Please confirm. Novichok is deadly poisonous. It's been stated that one drop from a pipette could kill 10 people. Why did no one die? No current answer. Russia says (quoting Ellers) it wasn't novichok. Why did they say that? Boris and TM knew who to blame very quickly. How come? Boris and PD discrepancy re who said what. Clarity needed. No images of the skripals. Nothing. Litvinenko loads. Why? Anyone up for listing motivations and abilities to have done this?
Taking your post into account then a sensible man would just act cautiously before laying the blame at someone's door. Gather as much evidence as possible and then scrutinise it and then come to a conclusion. Surely that is the sensible, most common sense route.
Absolutely, but I suppose ultimately, we're going round and round in circles. Undoubtedly there's loads going on that we do t and won't know about. Oh to be a fly on the wall in the cabinet office this afternoon. We are entitled to ask these questions, especially when our safety is on the line. Our single voices are quiet. We need journalists to be asking these questions. Get on the radio and ask these questions. I do. A lot of other people are too and I'd estimate that significantly more people are asking the questions we are and urging caution, than are not.
Nice list Woody but you fail to include the intelligence provided by MI5/MI6 to the government (of which we are not privvy to, for obvious reasons) which no doubt points directly to Russia. I'm no world level diplomat, but I'm pretty sure that the other 27 countries who have ejected Russian spies from their shores haven't done so on the strength of Boris' mis-quotes of the CEO of Porton Down, and have done so after having been provided the additional evidence that their security levels allow.
Absolutely, I've said plenty of times that there's stuff we don't and won't know about, so it becomes a trust issue.
We all agree OPCW says PD got their analysis right. Agree? Yes they agree with our government findings which stated it was Novichok. Also the world biological and chemical lot say it is "absolute verified". The stuff was taken to 4 different independent world labs and assessed. They all came up with the same answer. They know where it was made and who made it. They will not say Russia outright because that is not what they do. They will just identify and give results. Do they say it was novichok? Think so. Please confirm. yes "absolute verified" Novichok is deadly poisonous. It's been stated that one drop from a pipette could kill 10 people. Why did no one die? No current answer. You can be shot in the head a point-blank range and survive. I guess they got lucky if you can call being sick for the rest of your life. Russia says (quoting Ellers) it wasn't novichok. Why did they say that? Because they are lying 2222's. They have a history of lying. They also say that there was no chemical attack in Syria yet France has proved there was. Boris and TM knew who to blame very quickly. How come? Because it was 'High purity' and easy to identify. (they said that tonight on the radio) plus MI6/GCHQ have added information that we are not privy to. Boris and PD discrepancy re who said what. Clarity needed. PD told Boris, he blabbed before OPCW confirmed and backtracked. No one has lied they have both been proven right. End of. No images of the skripals. Nothing. Litvinenko loads. Why? You are reading too much into that woody. They have not been abducted by aliens. They are being protected. People have seen them anyway and she has made contact with family and Russian embassy. Anyone up for listing motivations and abilities to have done this? Russia Russia and Russia. The chemical expert on the radio was asked a similar question and he was convinced it was Russia and he went on to say they will probably blame people from Mars rather than admit it.
Porton Down couldn't say that the poison was made in Russia (nor could the OPCW). Johnson said that they had told him that it definitely was made in Russia. They can't both be right.
They knew who to blame because it was high purity?? Which apparently came out today didn't it? Sometimes there's no reasoning with unreasonable people. I can't for the life of me find anyone who says where it was made or who made it. Anyone got a link?
The OPCW were not even tasked with attempting to find out who made it or where it was made!!! Yet again though bafoon Boris goes in two footed. What a complete twat the bloke is.
