Off Topic The Politics Thread

[kiwiqpr]

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[YorkshireHoopster]

The alleged murdered Russian in New Malden, Nikolai Glushkov who gave evidence against Abramovich in a case brought about by LogoVaz car company owner Boris Berezovsky in 2011, was also found dead at his home in Berkshire in 2013. Berezovsky had fallen foul of Putin while Abramovich remained on good terms with the Kremlin. The coroner returned an open verdict on his death. Nikolai Glushkov was a director of this car company and also the state airline Aeroflot. Both fled to the UK for asylum and both have died in suspicious circumstances. The plot thickens.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/16/police-launch-inquiry-over-death-of-nikolai-glushkov

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But we welcomed them in . Berezovsky was involved in a huge court action against Abramovich worth billions to the winner and lost conclusively in the High Court because he was an out and out liar. The Judge resolved every dispute of fact in Abramovich's favour. There were countless new points of law which were resolved some by the Court of Appeal. Make of that what you will but as I recall he somehow managed to get Legal Aid as well.

Someone is clearly out of step - either the Judiciary were bought by RA or the State backed a crook who was completely discredited as soon as he opened his mouth simply because he had been elevated to the status of sainthood because he was an enemy of Putin and the Communist party. I doubt it was the former. Just as I doubt that these 'refugees' are in any way innocent victims who have always been political martyrs fighting selflessly for peace , democracy and in opposition to tyranny.

 

[ELLERS]

Anyone catch the Panorama with John Sweeney? If not watch it on catch up. Says everything you need to know about Putin's government. He was followed, framed for something he clearly didn't do, arrested and the media made false allegations about him,

For our Putin sympathizers...The opposition candidates for the election were either Shot dead, stabbed, nearly blinded, hospitalized, arrested or threatened. During the election yesterday monitors in certain polling stations were not allowed to go in and do their job. You couldn't make it up.

Even today a Russia puppet of Putin is now saying that the attack didn't happen and whos to say the victims are in hospital? He also went on to mention Comrade Corbyn views twice. As I said on the day, Corbyn can never be allowed to run our country. The bloke is a tw2t

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

We lap up Russian money
Double standards imo

 

[Stroller]

Anyone catch the Panorama with John Sweeney? If not watch it on catch up. Says everything you need to know about Putin's government. He was followed, framed for something he clearly didn't do, arrested and the media made false allegations about him,

For our Putin sympathizers...The opposition candidates for the election were either Shot dead, stabbed, nearly blinded, hospitalized, arrested or threatened. During the election yesterday monitors in certain polling stations were not allowed to go in and do their job. You couldn't make it up.

Even today a Russia puppet of Putin is now saying that the attack didn't happen and whos to say the victims are in hospital? He also went on to mention Comrade Corbyn views twice. As I said on the day, Corbyn can never be allowed to run our country. The bloke is a tw2t

Who are 'our Putin sympathisers' ?

 

[ELLERS]

Who are 'our Putin sympathisers' ?

Stroller do you remember that John Terry chant "We know what you are". Well in answer to your question, we know who they are.

 

[Stroller]

Stroller do you remember that John Terry chant "We know what you are". Well in answer to your question, we know who they are.

I think it's ridiculous to describe anyone on here as a Putin sympathiser. You really ought to name names so that people can defend themselves or keep your snide insinuations to yourself.

 

[UTRs]

Never mind all that, did anyone catch this very interesting interview on the one show?...

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[BobbyD]

Who are 'our Putin sympathisers' ?

the people who refuse to lump the accused into a guilty bracket without evidence in the name of britains interests.

 

[ELLERS]

I think it's ridiculous to describe anyone on here as a Putin sympathiser. You really ought to name names so that people can defend themselves or keep your snide insinuations to yourself.

I have not mentioned anyone on here so stop acting like a Russian spokesman and accusing me of something.
I am glad we live in a democracy where we can speak out without being shot,blinded,arrested. All we need to do is stop the bullying.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

I think Putin is largely irrelevant in this situation. It could be anyone. The important point here is that, prior to any investigation being carried out, and any demonstration of anything resembling evidence, not even proof, being presented to an independent body, the uk government are able to make the rules up as they go along. That's worrying.

 

[Stroller]

I have not mentioned anyone on here so stop acting like a Russian spokesman and accusing me of something.
I am glad we live in a democracy where we can speak out without being shot,blinded,arrested. All we need to do is stop the bullying.

You have referred to 'Putin sympathisers' on here more than once...........

It is sad that when our country is attacked we have the usual suspects being Putin sympathizers. I am all for innocent until proven guilty but I am not stupid enough to believe that Russia is innocent for this crime. Things like nerve agents leave a calling card that can identify exactly where it came from.
We should all be proud of our country and support it when evil twats try to cause us harm. People like Corbyn and some of the posts I have read in the last few days sicken me. Fortunately for all of us Comrade Corbyn signed away any chance of winning an election after yesterdays PMQ's. Many of his own party and supporters were disgusted at his comments.
I would believe May any day over Putin.

If you 'know who they are', name them. Otherwise apologise.

 

[ELLERS]

I think Putin is largely irrelevant in this situation. It could be anyone. The important point here is that, prior to any investigation being carried out, and any demonstration of anything resembling evidence, not even proof, being presented to an independent body, the uk government are able to make the rules up as they go along. That's worrying.

Do you think so? I believe they have all the evidence and proof they need. Maybe some of our informants in Russia are paying dividends. I thought TM has handled it well (and poll ratings/commentators say the same). Defence bloke came across weak and inexperienced. The overall management of the investigation has been very good. Only let down for me, was that Corbyn for not supporting his own government, his own people. He was already raising the red flag before PMQ's. Fortunately for everyone, he came across as a muppet (or should I say puppet). . it's killed him as a future PM.
This was a chemical attack in our country and no matter your political preferences we should be supporting the government. Who would you believe Putin?

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

I can't make a call. Obviously, I won't personally see any evidence, but it seems TM and co have still not produced anything, so it's all say so. If you're up in court, accused of something, you have a right to view the case and the evidence against you. It's a very simple notion.

Headlines on corporate media this morning suggest Russia have been stock piling this stuff for 10 years.

Russia claim that they possess absolutely nothing and haven't for years, and that this was supported by the UN.

I don't align with TM, JC, VM or anyone at present. There is no representation at meaningful level of the direction we so obviously should be heading in.

 

[ELLERS]

I can't make a call. Obviously, I won't personally see any evidence, but it seems TM and co have still not produced anything, so it's all say so. If you're up in court, accused of something, you have a right to view the case and the evidence against you. It's a very simple notion.

Headlines on corporate media this morning suggest Russia have been stock piling this stuff for 10 years.

Russia claim that they possess absolutely nothing and haven't for years, and that this was supported by the UN.

I don't align with TM, JC, VM or anyone at present. There is no representation at meaningful level of the direction we so obviously should be heading in.

I think like any investigation, it will take time. I understand accusing Russia before it has fully been concluded may look at bit premature but I think from the way they are talking they have the evidence. Look what happened when the other bloke was poisoned. Russia did it and nothing happened so I guess this time they are acting quickly.

Putin runs a police state where the opposition are killed, imprisoned, beaten up. He has shown in the past that he does not care about the west...Crimea,Ukraine,Syria. He has boasted about killing ex-spies and has done so. He has bragged about new weapons that can destroy the west. He claims he has no nerve agent? Tell that to the innocent Syrians murdered by nerve agents supplied by Russia

Most of this aggression is because economically his country is a disaster. On CNBC this morning they were discussing growth in Russia as low and how he needs distractions to cover this up.
In the last week, I have watched 3 very different documentaries/News stories on Putin's Russia and they all have the same thing in common in that he is a thug and rules by fear.

When I hear people saying we can't blame him blah blah blah it makes me think about logic. Just listening to the feeble excuses coming out of Russia should convince the undecided.

 

[ELLERS]

Seems some progress has been made on Brexit.
EU citizens looked after.
Good news for businesses.
Not so good for fishing.
Good for Gibralta
Nothing on Ireland

Overall I think the EU is starting to cave in. However the most important thing is Citizens rights and business.

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

I think like any investigation, it will take time. I understand accusing Russia before it has fully been concluded may look at bit premature but I think from the way they are talking they have the evidence. Look what happened when the other bloke was poisoned. Russia did it and nothing happened so I guess this time they are acting quickly.

Putin runs a police state where the opposition are killed, imprisoned, beaten up. He has shown in the past that he does not care about the west...Crimea,Ukraine,Syria. He has boasted about killing ex-spies and has done so. He has bragged about new weapons that can destroy the west. He claims he has no nerve agent? Tell that to the innocent Syrians murdered by nerve agents supplied by Russia

Most of this aggression is because economically his country is a disaster. On CNBC this morning they were discussing growth in Russia as low and how he needs distractions to cover this up.
In the last week, I have watched 3 very different documentaries/News stories on Putin's Russia and they all have the same thing in common in that he is a thug and rules by fear.

When I hear people saying we can't blame him blah blah blah it makes me think about logic. Just listening to the feeble excuses coming out of Russia should convince the undecided.

Not only premature, but against the rules and agreements.

The 'way' who are talking? We hear mostly from the corporate media, who, in my view so far, have presented a very partial stance on this.

The Litvinenko (sp?) case is no basis to take action on this.

The argument that Russia are the only ones capable of producing this stuff has gone quiet.

Do you think getting rid of agents is strictly a Russian trait?

Have you ever heard of Eva Bartlett? I'd not, until Saturday. She offers a very different story regarding Syria.

Who knows, your beliefs may be absolutely correct, or you may be believing what you're intended to believe.

I have no beliefs on this, other than I know I can't rely on the mainstream media to tell me what's going on - the more I listen, the more painfully obvious that is.

Can I rely on the government to be honest?

 

[ELLERS]

Can I rely on the government to be honest?

When it comes down to it if you believe that our own government are anyway responsible for this you are wide of the mark. No way in the World would TM or our government do this. Frankly I am surprised anyone would actually think that, (The Russian bloke did though). Trust in a TM regarding politics and a chemical attack are 2 completely different things. As for differing views you will always get them especially when evidence is so onesided.
If it came to a simple question of do I believe the government over Putin? I would always go with the government.
It's almost like saying would you trust Hitler over Chamberlin?

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

When it comes down to it if you believe that our own government are anyway responsible for this you are wide of the mark. No way in the World would TM or our government do this. Frankly I am surprised anyone would actually think that, (The Russian bloke did though).
If it came to a simple question of do I believe the government over Putin? I would always go with the government.
It's almost like saying would you trust Hitler over Chamberlin?

'Can I trust the British government to be honest?' is a very different question to 'do I think the British government carried this out?'

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

However, the government appreciate you unquestioning support. (Unofficial statement)