Second Referendum

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Now Trump's tax reforms have already had dual effects. Millions of families are planning to spend the extra money, mostly middle class.
That extra spend creates more jobs
SMEs are looking at investment and growing their companies for the first time in a long time.

Trump spoke during the Bush presidency about outsourcing destroying the US economy. He's worked for the past year turning that around, or starting to.

Stock markets are responding to his first year, in record fashion.

Economically I like Trump, I hate the **** in every other way


True the stock markets are anticipating his tax cuts and derestrictions in the financial markets. But equities have been king for a long time as there been **** all return for investors elsewhere.
 
Following on from the EU's draconian renewable nonsense
Top three are there because of wind.
So is New South Wales
Queensland
Victoria

I remember the Guardian reporting German householders would be getting free energy, or paid to take it, lying morons, only wholesale dropped negative, retail skyrocketed in 2017 in Germany
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You are missing the rather obvious point that if you are allowed to put unlimited carbon into the atmosphere at no cost then you are going to have cheap electricity and risk drowning half the population over the next 100 years.
I think you are lying about the Guardian quote as it’s always been true that renewables are more expensive.
This is exactly the sort of issue where international laws are needed to stop a few countries destroying others from a distance. If you relied on water from glaciers in the Andes you might have a different view.
 
No, You have no idea (by your admission) and at the same time claim it is too early.

Go google some more links that fit your outlook
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Remoaners only see what they want to see


lol
The null hypothesis is that nothing that Trump has done can yet have affected the economy. If you believe the opposite it is you that have the burden of proof. All the data is consistent with the null hypothesis.
Your graph above is an exact illustration of your mistake on Trump.
 
As this chart shows, manufacturing jobs on the US have been on the decline for many years prior to that. Whilst it accelerated since 2000, a lot of that was down to the global recession. Apart from that, the US, like many western nations, has lost some of its competitive edge against other nations.

S. manufacturing employment, January 1970–December 2014 (millions of jobs)
Date Manufacturing employment (millions of jobs)
1970-01-01
18.424
1970-02-01 18.361
1970-03-01 18.36
1970-04-01 18.207
1970-05-01 18.029
1970-06-01 17.93
1970-07-01 17.877
1970-08-01 17.779
1970-09-01 17.692
1970-10-01 17.173
1970-11-01 17.024
1970-12-01 17.309
1971-01-01 17.28
1971-02-01 17.216
1971-03-01 17.154
1971-04-01 17.149
1971-05-01 17.225
1971-06-01 17.139
1971-07-01 17.126
1971-08-01 17.115
1971-09-01 17.154
1971-10-01 17.126
1971-11-01 17.166
1971-12-01 17.202
1972-01-01 17.283
1972-02-01 17.361
1972-03-01 17.447
1972-04-01 17.508
1972-05-01 17.602
1972-06-01 17.641
1972-07-01 17.556
1972-08-01 17.741
1972-09-01 17.774
1972-10-01 17.893
1972-11-01 18.005
1972-12-01 18.158
1973-01-01 18.276
1973-02-01 18.41
1973-03-01 18.493
1973-04-01 18.53
1973-05-01 18.564
1973-06-01 18.606
1973-07-01 18.598
1973-08-01 18.629
1973-09-01 18.609
1973-10-01 18.702
1973-11-01 18.773
1973-12-01 18.82
1974-01-01 18.788
1974-02-01 18.727
1974-03-01 18.7
1974-04-01 18.702
1974-05-01 18.688
1974-06-01 18.69
1974-07-01 18.656
1974-08-01 18.57
1974-09-01 18.492
1974-10-01 18.364
1974-11-01 18.077
1974-12-01 17.693
1975-01-01 17.344
1975-02-01 17.004
1975-03-01 16.853
1975-04-01 16.759
1975-05-01 16.746
1975-06-01 16.69
1975-07-01 16.678
1975-08-01 16.824
1975-09-01 16.904
1975-10-01 16.984
1975-11-01 17.025
1975-12-01 17.14
1976-01-01 17.287
1976-02-01 17.384
1976-03-01 17.47
1976-04-01 17.541
1976-05-01 17.513
1976-06-01 17.521
1976-07-01 17.524
1976-08-01 17.596
1976-09-01 17.665
1976-10-01 17.548
1976-11-01 17.682
1976-12-01 17.719
1977-01-01 17.803
1977-02-01 17.843
1977-03-01 17.941
1977-04-01 18.024
1977-05-01 18.107
1977-06-01 18.192
1977-07-01 18.259
1977-08-01 18.276
1977-09-01 18.334
1977-10-01 18.356
1977-11-01 18.419
1977-12-01 18.531
1978-01-01 18.593
1978-02-01 18.639
1978-03-01 18.699
1978-04-01 18.772
1978-05-01 18.848
1978-06-01 18.919
1978-07-01 18.951
1978-08-01 19.006
1978-09-01 19.068
1978-10-01 19.142
1978-11-01 19.257
1978-12-01 19.334
1979-01-01 19.388
1979-02-01 19.409
1979-03-01 19.453
1979-04-01 19.45
1979-05-01 19.509
1979-06-01 19.553
1979-07-01 19.531
1979-08-01 19.406
1979-09-01 19.442
1979-10-01 19.39
1979-11-01 19.299
1979-12-01 19.301
1980-01-01 19.282
1980-02-01 19.219
1980-03-01 19.217
1980-04-01 18.973
1980-05-01 18.726
1980-06-01 18.49
1980-07-01 18.276
1980-08-01 18.414
1980-09-01 18.445
1980-10-01 18.506
1980-11-01 18.601
1980-12-01 18.64
1981-01-01 18.639
1981-02-01 18.613
1981-03-01 18.647
1981-04-01 18.711
1981-05-01 18.766
1981-06-01 18.789
1981-07-01 18.785
1981-08-01 18.748
1981-09-01 18.712
1981-10-01 18.566
1981-11-01 18.409
1981-12-01 18.223
1982-01-01 18.047
1982-02-01 17.981
1982-03-01 17.857
1982-04-01 17.683
1982-05-01 17.588
1982-06-01 17.43
1982-07-01 17.278
1982-08-01 17.16
1982-09-01 17.074
1982-10-01 16.853
1982-11-01 16.722
1982-12-01 16.69
1983-01-01 16.705
1983-02-01 16.706
1983-03-01 16.711
1983-04-01 16.794
1983-05-01 16.885
1983-06-01 16.96
1983-07-01 17.059
1983-08-01 17.118
1983-09-01 17.255
1983-10-01 17.367
1983-11-01 17.479
1983-12-01 17.551
1984-01-01 17.63
1984-02-01 17.728
1984-03-01 17.806
1984-04-01 17.872
1984-05-01 17.916
1984-06-01 17.967
1984-07-01 18.013
1984-08-01 18.034
1984-09-01 18.019
1984-10-01 18.024
1984-11-01 18.016
1984-12-01 18.023
1985-01-01 18.009
1985-02-01 17.966
1985-03-01 17.939
1985-04-01 17.886
1985-05-01 17.855
1985-06-01 17.819
1985-07-01 17.776
1985-08-01 17.756
1985-09-01 17.718
1985-10-01 17.708
1985-11-01 17.697
1985-12-01 17.693
1986-01-01 17.686
1986-02-01 17.663
1986-03-01 17.624
1986-04-01 17.616
1986-05-01 17.593
1986-06-01 17.53
1986-07-01 17.497
1986-08-01 17.489
1986-09-01 17.498
1986-10-01 17.477
1986-11-01 17.472
1986-12-01 17.478
1987-01-01 17.465
1987-02-01 17.499
1987-03-01 17.507
1987-04-01 17.525
1987-05-01 17.542
1987-06-01 17.537
1987-07-01 17.593
1987-08-01 17.63
1987-09-01 17.691
1987-10-01 17.729
1987-11-01 17.775
1987-12-01 17.809
1988-01-01 17.79
1988-02-01 17.823
1988-03-01 17.844
1988-04-01 17.874
1988-05-01 17.892
1988-06-01 17.916
1988-07-01 17.926
1988-08-01 17.891
1988-09-01 17.914
1988-10-01 17.966
1988-11-01 18.003
1988-12-01 18.025
1989-01-01 18.057
1989-02-01 18.055
1989-03-01 18.06
1989-04-01 18.055
1989-05-01 18.04
1989-06-01 18.013
1989-07-01 17.98
1989-08-01 17.964
1989-09-01 17.922
1989-10-01 17.895
1989-11-01 17.886
1989-12-01 17.881
1990-01-01 17.797
1990-02-01 17.893
1990-03-01 17.868
1990-04-01 17.845
1990-05-01 17.797
1990-06-01 17.776
1990-07-01 17.704
1990-08-01 17.649
1990-09-01 17.609
1990-10-01 17.577
1990-11-01 17.428
1990-12-01 17.395
1991-01-01 17.33
1991-02-01 17.211
1991-03-01 17.14
1991-04-01 17.093
1991-05-01 17.07
1991-06-01 17.044
1991-07-01 17.015
1991-08-01 17.025
1991-09-01 17.01
1991-10-01 16.999
1991-11-01 16.961
1991-12-01 16.916
1992-01-01 16.839
1992-02-01 16.829
1992-03-01 16.805
1992-04-01 16.831
1992-05-01 16.835
1992-06-01 16.826
1992-07-01 16.819
1992-08-01 16.783
1992-09-01 16.761
1992-10-01 16.751
1992-11-01 16.758
1992-12-01 16.769
1993-01-01 16.791
1993-02-01 16.805
1993-03-01 16.795
1993-04-01 16.772
1993-05-01 16.766
1993-06-01 16.742
1993-07-01 16.739
1993-08-01 16.741
1993-09-01 16.769
1993-10-01 16.778
1993-11-01 16.8
1993-12-01 16.815
1994-01-01 16.855
1994-02-01 16.862
1994-03-01 16.897
1994-04-01 16.933
1994-05-01 16.962
1994-06-01 17.01
1994-07-01 17.026
1994-08-01 17.081
1994-09-01 17.115
1994-10-01 17.144
1994-11-01 17.186
1994-12-01 17.217
1995-01-01 17.262
1995-02-01 17.265
1995-03-01 17.263
1995-04-01 17.278
1995-05-01 17.259
1995-06-01 17.247
1995-07-01 17.218
1995-08-01 17.24
1995-09-01 17.247
1995-10-01 17.216
1995-11-01 17.209
1995-12-01 17.231
1996-01-01 17.208
1996-02-01 17.229
1996-03-01 17.193
1996-04-01 17.204
1996-05-01 17.222
1996-06-01 17.226
1996-07-01 17.223
1996-08-01 17.255
1996-09-01 17.252
1996-10-01 17.268
1996-11-01 17.277
1996-12-01 17.284
1997-01-01 17.297
1997-02-01 17.316
1997-03-01 17.34
1997-04-01 17.349
1997-05-01 17.362
1997-06-01 17.387
1997-07-01 17.389
1997-08-01 17.452
1997-09-01 17.465
1997-10-01 17.513
1997-11-01 17.556
1997-12-01 17.588
1998-01-01 17.619
1998-02-01 17.627
1998-03-01 17.637
1998-04-01 17.637
1998-05-01 17.624
1998-06-01 17.608
1998-07-01 17.422
1998-08-01 17.563
1998-09-01 17.557
1998-10-01 17.512
1998-11-01 17.465
1998-12-01 17.449
1999-01-01 17.427
1999-02-01 17.395
1999-03-01 17.368
1999-04-01 17.344
1999-05-01 17.333
1999-06-01 17.295
1999-07-01 17.308
1999-08-01 17.287
1999-09-01 17.281
1999-10-01 17.272
1999-11-01 17.282
1999-12-01 17.28
2000-01-01 17.284
2000-02-01 17.285
2000-03-01 17.302
2000-04-01 17.298
2000-05-01 17.279
2000-06-01 17.296
2000-07-01 17.322
2000-08-01 17.287
2000-09-01 17.23
2000-10-01 17.217
2000-11-01 17.202
2000-12-01 17.181
2001-01-01 17.104
2001-02-01 17.028
2001-03-01 16.938
2001-04-01 16.802
2001-05-01 16.661
2001-06-01 16.515
2001-07-01 16.382
2001-08-01 16.232
2001-09-01 16.117
2001-10-01 15.972
2001-11-01 15.825
2001-12-01 15.711
2002-01-01 15.587
2002-02-01 15.515
2002-03-01 15.443
2002-04-01 15.392
2002-05-01 15.337
2002-06-01 15.298
2002-07-01 15.256
2002-08-01 15.171
2002-09-01 15.119
2002-10-01 15.06
2002-11-01 14.992
2002-12-01 14.912
2003-01-01 14.866
2003-02-01 14.781
2003-03-01 14.721
2003-04-01 14.609
2003-05-01 14.557
2003-06-01 14.493
2003-07-01 14.402
2003-08-01 14.376
2003-09-01 14.347
2003-10-01 14.334
2003-11-01 14.316
2003-12-01 14.3
2004-01-01 14.29
2004-02-01 14.279
2004-03-01 14.287
2004-04-01 14.315
2004-05-01 14.342
2004-06-01 14.332
2004-07-01 14.33
2004-08-01 14.345
2004-09-01 14.331
2004-10-01 14.332
2004-11-01 14.307
2004-12-01 14.287
2005-01-01 14.257
2005-02-01 14.273
2005-03-01 14.269
2005-04-01 14.25
2005-05-01 14.256
2005-06-01 14.227
2005-07-01 14.226
2005-08-01 14.203
2005-09-01 14.175
2005-10-01 14.192
2005-11-01 14.187
2005-12-01 14.193
2006-01-01 14.21
2006-02-01 14.209
2006-03-01 14.214
2006-04-01 14.226
2006-05-01 14.203
2006-06-01 14.213
2006-07-01 14.188
2006-08-01 14.159
2006-09-01 14.125
2006-10-01 14.075
2006-11-01 14.041
2006-12-01 14.015
2007-01-01 14.008
2007-02-01 13.997
2007-03-01 13.97
2007-04-01 13.945
2007-05-01 13.929
2007-06-01 13.911
2007-07-01 13.889
2007-08-01 13.828
2007-09-01 13.79
2007-10-01 13.764
2007-11-01 13.757
2007-12-01 13.746
2008-01-01 13.725
2008-02-01 13.696
2008-03-01 13.659
2008-04-01 13.599
2008-05-01 13.564
2008-06-01 13.504
2008-07-01 13.43
2008-08-01 13.358
2008-09-01 13.275
2008-10-01 13.147
2008-11-01 13.034
2008-12-01 12.85
2009-01-01 12.561
2009-02-01 12.38
2009-03-01 12.208
2009-04-01 12.03
2009-05-01 11.862
2009-06-01 11.726
2009-07-01 11.668
2009-08-01 11.626
2009-09-01 11.591
2009-10-01 11.538
2009-11-01 11.509
2009-12-01 11.475
2010-01-01 11.46
2010-02-01 11.453
2010-03-01 11.453
2010-04-01 11.489
2010-05-01 11.525
2010-06-01 11.545
2010-07-01 11.561
2010-08-01 11.553
2010-09-01 11.563
2010-10-01 11.562
2010-11-01 11.585
2010-12-01 11.595
2011-01-01 11.618
2011-02-01 11.653
2011-03-01 11.67
2011-04-01 11.7
2011-05-01 11.712
2011-06-01 11.724
2011-07-01 11.742
2011-08-01 11.766
2011-09-01 11.771
2011-10-01 11.776
2011-11-01 11.774
2011-12-01 11.799
2012-01-01 11.834
2012-02-01 11.857
2012-03-01 11.899
2012-04-01 11.916
2012-05-01 11.93
2012-06-01 11.941
2012-07-01 11.965
2012-08-01 11.961
2012-09-01 11.948
2012-10-01 11.951
2012-11-01 11.947
2012-12-01 11.961
2013-01-01 11.98
2013-02-01 12.002
2013-03-01 12.006
2013-04-01 12.006
2013-05-01 12.007
2013-06-01 12.005
2013-07-01 11.983
2013-08-01 12.011
2013-09-01 12.022
2013-10-01 12.04
2013-11-01 12.072
2013-12-01 12.086
2014-01-01 12.102
2014-02-01 12.122
2014-03-01 12.131
2014-04-01 12.142
2014-05-01 12.154
2014-06-01 12.177
2014-07-01 12.191
2014-08-01 12.205
2014-09-01 12.214
2014-10-01 12.237
2014-11-01 12.282
2014-12-01 12.301

Are you ****ing serious?

Have you seen those numbers?

Why aren't more people up in arms???? <whistle>
 
"European Parliament politicians have vowed to overcome objections from governments of member nations to the imposition of their new 35% renewable energy target."

Renewable has been an utter disaster on retail energy prices and increases the cost of everything.

Also there are a lot of renewable claims that are pure nonsense.
Total Primary Energy Supply (TPES) - Renewable - Global share 13.4%
Sounds good doesn't it.
Let me break that down.
Wind and solar combined 0.8%
Tide and GeoT 0.7%
Hydro(that environmentalists block at every turn) 2.1%
Nuclear 4.5%
BURNING **** (wood dung pellets and household garbage) 9.4%

The renewable the EU will try force on the EU will be primarily wind (massive boondoggle and unreliable) and solar
"MEPs said the EU should get 35 percent of its energy from renewable sources by 2030, as well as achieving a minimum 35 percent gain in energy efficiency over the same period. They also agreed on strong rules for ensuring countries are on track to meet their goals."

Yep, more regulations that directly affect your life, in tyrannical micromanagement from Brussels.
The effect on your energy bills and the cost of everything will be borne by you the average joe

"“The targets are way beyond what is feasible. We cannot come up with commitments like that out of thin air,” said an Eastern European diplomat."

yet the EU doesn't care, and it shows clearly who MEPs and the commission serve first, the money men and rich land owners who host wind farms.


If the US had relied on renewable for the Polar Vortex, the death toll would have been unimaginable, as 29% of US energy is gas alone.

https://www.politico.eu/article/european-capitals-will-rain-on-parliaments-green-parade/

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Jeez! Those figure and those stats.

Incredible. Where did you dig them out?

:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep:emoticon-0113-sleep
 
Erm....I might have read a few of em! <whistle>



It was supposed to be a ****ing graph!...that’s what I copied and then it pastes that ****! .

Just a bit too deep **** for a Saturday night after a few beers mate.

Keep going with the graphs though mate. You can never get enough of them ;)
 
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The US economy is on the up, Trump (love or hate him) has had a stellar first year economically on all counts
People signing on the dole lowest in 45 years
Black people unemployment lowest ever
Stock Market on record trend, monthly records broken
Companies moving factories from Mexico back to the US
Bonuses and salaries increasing slowly.. first time in... god knows.

Now is the time to get out of the EU and grab on to that economic coattail, the US markets are enormous

Every word of that is cobblers mate. The US economy was, in comparison to the rest of the developed world, in reasonable shape when the man-child got the keys to the WhiteHouse.

The $ is now ****ed though.
 
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True the stock markets are anticipating his tax cuts and derestrictions in the financial markets. But equities have been king for a long time as there been **** all return for investors elsewhere.


You make good points in your last few posts, definitely not as simple as I laid out NSIS. <ok>
 
You make good points in your last few posts, definitely not as simple as I laid out NSIS. <ok>


There’s a strong case for calling most equity markets well overvalued. PEs are looking ridiculous in some cases.

I think there’s either got to be a strong boost in corporate performance to start to justify these ratios or inevitably it’ll all come to go sticky end with mkts crashing.

Just wish I knew when!...
 
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There’s a strong case for calling most equity markets well overvalued. PEs are looking ridiculous in some cases.

I think there’s either got to be a strong boost in corporate performance to start to justify these ratios or inevitably it’ll all come to go sticky end with mkts crashing.

Just wish I knew when!...
you may be right.

can't see the sticky end, may, will see negative fluctuations, but can't see markets crashing.

If the underlying growth is manufacturing and job growth, a growing middle class and so growing industries beneath, it provides some durability.

The US problem has been for a long time, that financial services and trading has made up far to great a share of the market.
Real tangible jobs and wealth give stability, not guaranteed increases, but better able to take small to medium shocks and make them far more transient in effect.

When your markets depend so much on "confidence" as has been the case, it takes as we have seen one bad media report to see things fall suddenly and drastically, as per that report Trump was going to be impeached. Stocks plummeted in minutes

Right now, deregulation is also going to see growth, especially with SMEs

regulation crushes SMEs in Europe
and now their renewable targets are going to smash growth further
 
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you may be right.

can't see the sticky end, may, will see negative fluctuations, but can't see markets crashing.

If the underlying growth is manufacturing and job growth, a growing middle class and so growing industries beneath, it provides some durability.

The US problem has been for a long time, that financial services and trading has made up far to great a share of the market.
Real tangible jobs and wealth give stability, not guaranteed increases, but better able to take small to medium shocks and make them far more transient in effect.

When your markets depend so much on "confidence" as has been the case, it takes as we have seen one bad media report to see things fall suddenly and drastically, as per that report Trump was going to be impeached. Stocks plummeted in minutes

Right now, deregulation is also going to see growth, especially with SMEs

regulation crushes SMEs in Europe
and now their renewable targets are going to smash growth further


If growth can start to produce the kind of corporate performance to justify some of the current PE ratios then a crash can be avoided. But that’s a big if right now.

If not, then it’s just a matter of time.

Markets are always driven by confidence, or lack of. They’re also highly irrational. There’s an old City motto that it runs on either fear or greed. One or the other is usually in control. When it’s greed you get what Greenspan once termed ‘irrational exuberance’ ( also known as blind greed!) mkts become irrationally overbought and the upshot is inevitable. Seen it so many times, but it still never changes.

It will be interesting to see what form of deregulation Trump tries to push through and what if any effect it has on the economy. Having a strong manufacturing base is a great idea, so long as you are competitive and can sell what you produce.

As far as energy goes, I think countries should use renewable energy where possible. That obviously depends on the natural resources of that country and how easily they can be resourced. Here in Spain, for instance, they have an almost perfect scenario. Sun ( 300+ days a year of it in most parts), wind, and of course the sea.
 
Any one remember Hoadie? Another Gills fan that had two accounts that held conversations together. He was quite odd.

I remember all that. That is very embarrassing to think I even done that, then went on to deny that the other account was my account :emoticon-0140-rofl:.

(PS I am having fun recovering old threads, been away for 3 years so having a good old read).
 
I remember all that. That is very embarrassing to think I even done that, then went on to deny that the other account was my account :emoticon-0140-rofl:.

(PS I am having fun recovering old threads, been away for 3 years so having a good old read).
You sound like a weirdo
 
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