Off Topic Not sure who to speak/complain to...

[John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.]

Nothing as far as I'm aware. It might be why they gave her the occupational health reference, but I'm not buying that. She didn't get ill when she worked for the NHS in the same role and that was much harder work. This is a private hospital with a better standard of care, yet she's having to work just as hard because she's often the only person in her department on the ward. It's apparently monitored during a 12 month period, not Jan-Dec.

I mean her Dad can't die again, I don't know what they can do to stop bereavements other than not be ****ty about it. It wasn't even about her not being paid, just that it contributed to her getting a warning.

My problem with this policy is that none of what has happened to her was avoidable. She wasn't in control of what happened, it was illness. But she's been warned about her attendance at work. Warned. That's the key word for me because you don't warn somebody unless they've done something wrong. She hasn't done anything wrong or preventable.

I do appreciate the advice though, thank you everybody.

This very much sounds like a HR manager covering all eventualities. I wouldn't worry too much about it personally. Under employment law, there are certain things an employer has to do in order to sack someone. Some companies, and this one sounds like one of them, take the attitude that for whatever reason a person is absent, we will give out a statuary warning letter, as that keeps all their options open, should in the future they want to get rid of staff. It probably purely this, and what it does at the same time, unfairly put the employee under pressure to not take time off unnecessarily.

With companies that do administer this type of policy, which is often an over zealous HR manager proving to his employer what a good job he is doing, as long as she has proof that the reason for absence, and it is always better to have this documented if possible, like if she was off for her fathers death, then go to the doctor to ask for a letter saying she was absent for this reason, as well as other bouts of sickness go to the doctor and get a note, then it would be hard for them to make it stick.

Basically play them at their own game, make sure she gets proof of sickness, and it will be difficult for them to make it stick.

 

[HHH]

My immediate thoughts are, although it's not nice to get a letter like this given the circumstances, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Your wife has probably triggered something in the sickness policy and this is just standard procedure.

As an example, NHS policy would be 3 separate periods of sickness in a 6 month period and your manager will call you in for a sickness review meeting, which is pretty informal.

In reality this meeting would probably be a bit of a tick box exercise, but they should be used to identify if any staff need extra support of any kind, if they are maybe taking the piss and it needs knocking on the head or if they've just had an unlucky run of things.

You'd draw up an action plan at this point and all being well, that would be the end of it.

If absences continue then you go to stage 1 of the sickness policy and you'd have to meet required attendance levels. If not then it's onto stage 2 and so on until stages 3/4 where you could be facing redeployment or dismissal.

One weakness with theses policies is it doesn't take into account personal circumstances, which appears unfair in your wife's example. But the policies are there to protect both the employer and the employee. You'd be leaving yourself open to all kinds of trouble without it.

You just need to be sure such a policy exists and get yourself a copy of it, so you know where you stand and be sure it's being followed correctly.

Just going back to the professional charter you mentioned. Without guessing your wife's profession, there's probably something in there along the lines of it requires you to ensure your own health and fitness so as not to compromise patient safety. If disciplinary action ever gets mentioned then that's always a good one to throw back at them.

 

[originallambrettaman]

As others have said, I wouldn't worry too much about it, it's probably a standard letter triggered by a fixed number of absences, it's not unusual.

Having said that, No.1 shouldn't be on there at all, it's a ****ty employer who'd apply any sort of penalty to someone taking time off to deal with the loss of a parent.

 

[Happy Tiger]

Although it’s under ****ty circumstances, this thread shows this board at its best.

I’d agree with the above regarding not worrying about it, although I understand why you both are.

Unfortunately you’re unlikely to affect or change company policy.

She’s not at immediate risk of being sacked, and I’d suggest having a good look at work/life balance. No one is indispensable and life’s too short.

 

[Steven Toast]

Thank you everybody, I think it’s just me being neurotic. I don’t want her to be more stressed than she already is, but if the letter doesn't mean anything then I’m not going to worry. As OLM said, I think the Dad dying thing was crappy to hold her for, it shouldn’t have shown up and the constant pestering while she was fighting for her life was unnecessary as they should have known it wasn’t a suitable time to be calling. I can see it from their point of view but it felt very invasive.

See, we can all get along. You lovely ****s you.

 

[over18and legal]

Thank you everybody, I think it’s just me being neurotic. I don’t want her to be more stressed than she already is, but if the letter doesn't mean anything then I’m not going to worry. As OLM said, I think the Dad dying thing was crappy to hold her for, it shouldn’t have shown up and the constant pestering while she was fighting for her life was unnecessary as they should have known it wasn’t a suitable time to be calling. I can see it from their point of view but it felt very invasive.

See, we can all get along. You lovely ****s you.

Good luck Sterling and best wishes to your better half

 

[Fez]

Thank you everybody, I think it’s just me being neurotic. I don’t want her to be more stressed than she already is, but if the letter doesn't mean anything then I’m not going to worry. As OLM said, I think the Dad dying thing was crappy to hold her for, it shouldn’t have shown up and the constant pestering while she was fighting for her life was unnecessary as they should have known it wasn’t a suitable time to be calling. I can see it from their point of view but it felt very invasive.

See, we can all get along. You lovely ****s you.

I think you've received good advice; start by looking at your wife's contract and then the various sickness/absence/ disciplinary policies - a policy is a necessarily cold document for very good reason, but is always to be enforced with compassion and common sense. There has been a serious breakdown in communication or your wife's manager is in need of retraining and it should be addressed as a very legitimate grievance. Did your wife receive any form of 'home' visit from her manager, when ill?

 

[Bunny]

My mate got sacked after being off sick twice for injuries he sustained at work.

He got a fair wedge off them for the actual injuries but the dismissal was apparently fair and in line with company policy!

Figure that one out.

I'm gob smacked!! I find that hard to believe......you have a mate !!!

 

[Amin Arrears]

I'm gob smacked!! I find that hard to believe......you have a mate !!!

I has got millions.

 

[GLP]

No compassionate leave for the death of a parent? The ****ers. Who would actually genuinely want to work for ****bags like that?

 

[DMD]

No compassionate leave for the death of a parent? The ****ers. Who would actually genuinely want to work for ****bags like that?

Jeremy Bamber?

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

Jeremy Bamber?

 

[Frodsham Tiger]

Afraid I can't offer any advice but I can certainly empathise.

Couple of years ago, a colleague of my girlfriend's received a written warning for taking time off ill - after being diagnosed with cancer! Apparently in their place three sessions of sickness in six months is an automatic written warning regardless of circumstances. No grey areas, no taking each case on its own merits - it is a hard fast rule with no possibility of mitigation. And it turned out the cancer was terminal and she died just a few months later. I found the way she was treated absolutely appalling.

Stories like these make me realise I'm quite lucky where I work as when my Dad became terminally ill just a few years ago my manager was very understanding and gave me several weeks compassionate leave without any pressure to return until I was ready.

 

[MrsHallsSausageRolls]

I don't post much on here, but can relate to your post but for different reasons.

My wife works in a school with 5 year old kids coughing and spluttering in her face. Like your wife she had pneumonia and needed 3 rounds of antibiotics to shift it.
She also had a bad case of food poisoning (campylobacter) which knocked the stuffing out of her and really compromised her immune system.

In the last 2 years she has had more health problems and has been diagnosed with asthma, chronic sinusitis, rosacea and ear problems.

The schools policy is 3 absences in a rolling 12 month period. They have never called her in on this because like your wife she is very hard working and works long hours above and beyond the call of duty.

Her health went on a downward spiral since the pneumonia and food poisoning. Everytime she went to the doctors they would prescribe antibiotics which short term improved her but long term she got worse.

We decide that this was making her worse. We took matters into our own hands and did a lot of research into what was making her ill. We decided that it was a compromised immune system based on her stomache and started to treat it with probiotics. We made our own probiotics using kefir grains and milk. These are very strong but they have slowly and dramatically changed her health. In the last 4 months the chronic sinusitis and the rosacea(which is supposed to be incurable) have gone. She was due have an operation on both ears last month but that was cancelled because the problems in her ears have cleared in one completely and almost gone in the other.

The school could not have been any better in our instance. I would just make sure your wife is completely recovered from the pneumonia. Antibiotics are good in many cases but because they destroy good stuff as well they can detrimental to your health.

 

[Steven Toast]

I don't post much on here, but can relate to your post but for different reasons.

My wife works in a school with 5 year old kids coughing and spluttering in her face. Like your wife she had pneumonia and needed 3 rounds of antibiotics to shift it.
She also had a bad case of food poisoning (campylobacter) which knocked the stuffing out of her and really compromised her immune system.

In the last 2 years she has had more health problems and has been diagnosed with asthma, chronic sinusitis, rosacea and ear problems.

The schools policy is 3 absences in a rolling 12 month period. They have never called her in on this because like your wife she is very hard working and works long hours above and beyond the call of duty.

Her health went on a downward spiral since the pneumonia and food poisoning. Everytime she went to the doctors they would prescribe antibiotics which short term improved her but long term she got worse.

We decide that this was making her worse. We took matters into our own hands and did a lot of research into what was making her ill. We decided that it was a compromised immune system based on her stomache and started to treat it with probiotics. We made our own probiotics using kefir grains and milk. These are very strong but they have slowly and dramatically changed her health. In the last 4 months the chronic sinusitis and the rosacea(which is supposed to be incurable) have gone. She was due have an operation on both ears last month but that was cancelled because the problems in her ears have cleared in one completely and almost gone in the other.

The school could not have been any better in our instance. I would just make sure your wife is completely recovered from the pneumonia. Antibiotics are good in many cases but because they destroy good stuff as well they can detrimental to your health.

That's good to know, I'm a teacher and I work a lot too, it can grind you down and lower your immune system. I'll mention the probiotics stuff, it sounds like that might be really useful.

 

[Amin Arrears]

Antibiotics are good in many cases but because they destroy good stuff as well they can detrimental to your health.

Absolutely and it's something you need to be aware of. Last time I got tonsillitis the antibiotics got rid of my chlamydia too.

 

[MrsHallsSausageRolls]

Absolutely and it's something you need to be aware of. Last time I got tonsillitis the antibiotics got rid of my chlamydia too.

Very funny.
Looks like you've got the clap

 

[RicardoHCAFC]

As said above, it'll be an automated thing due to number of absences in a short space of time. Sometimes there are hoops to jump through for sacking staff. There may be somebody else that they're trying to get rid of that's got a similar record to your mrs. Give your mrs a first warning for it knowing it won't affect her long term and they can give that other person a final warning/termination for it without them claiming victimisation for it.

 

[dennisboothstash]

Most things have already been said, but just to add my two penneth
Firstly I wouldn’t be too worried, as everyone’s said it’ll be policy that you get a warning after a trigger is...triggered
Secondly. Join a trades union. I take Askews point about the quality of them, but as far as I’m aware Unison and Unite are actually very powerful in Health
I’d definitely take the Occ Health appointment and any help such as smoking cessation. She doesn’t want to be in a position later where she’s off sick again and they can say that she’s refused to access the help they offered.( and if she stops smoking she can spend her money on lavishing gifts on you...or Union membership!)
I agree that an employer that doesn’t allow compassionate leave for a deceased relative is a **** employer, although I suppose the higher pay than the public sector is a trade off. Still worth explaining the death at her OH appointment so it’s logged formally
Ideally with a trades union rep, but I’d be also asking for a meeting with her line manager. It’s highly likely they can confirm that it’s just a policy trigger, but more importantly she can raise the concern about the time off due to her fathers death and question why that should be considered in the trigger. Worse case they’ll just shrug but she might get a sympathetic hearing and even get the line manager challenging it on her behalf. If the manager is sympathetic then record everything straight afterwards and email it to herself to date stamp it as a contemperaneous note which is important in any future employment tribunal (if they’re not sympathetic then don’t record it and delete the record of the meeting from her diary!)
As Ben says make sure she knows all their absence and disciplinary policies inside out so she can challenge any issues in the future
Good luck to her

 

[John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.]

Afraid I can't offer any advice but I can certainly empathise.

Couple of years ago, a colleague of my girlfriend's received a written warning for taking time off ill - after being diagnosed with cancer! Apparently in their place three sessions of sickness in six months is an automatic written warning regardless of circumstances. No grey areas, no taking each case on its own merits - it is a hard fast rule with no possibility of mitigation. And it turned out the cancer was terminal and she died just a few months later. I found the way she was treated absolutely appalling.

Stories like these make me realise I'm quite lucky where I work as when my Dad became terminally ill just a few years ago my manager was very understanding and gave me several weeks compassionate leave without any pressure to return until I was ready.

I don't know whether this was a true story or not, but I heard one of the reasons SB left was that he gave a member of his staff time off to see his Dad who was terminally ill and in his last 3 or 4 week of life. SB said he would still get paid, but when he came back turned out Ehab refused to pay him allegedly.