Off Topic The Politics Thread

[TheBigDipper]

Then University fees are fine then, right? And if the powers that be want to earn £500k, or a cool £1million, then that's also ok, because there's always students with deeper pockets, right? After all, if you stick two people in a room with a tiger, it'll eat twice as much - after all, it's what they do...

I think a university will work towards its own interests and pay to attract the staff they believe they need to do it. So, if a university thinks having a Labour peer on board means they'll have better political traction when discussing how much public payment they get, they'll employ one. It's the same as a bank employing non-executive director who used to be a Conservative chancellor. Both are examples of an organisation acting in its own interests within the rules and business climate they operate under.

If a university can make more money by finding more foreign students that deliver them more revenue, then yes - they will attract them and "eat double". Their goal is to educate as many people as they can without losing money. It isn't to make a profit or pay a shareholder dividend.

My personal goal would be to have universities that work for British students. I would revert to a system where British students didn't pay fees directly. That might mean controlling what courses did or did not warrant getting a grant. That might cause universities to reconsider what courses they offered. As the government could regulate university salaries if it wanted to, but (for the reason I gave earlier) may well be the recipient of one of those salaries in the future - well, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[sb_73]

Then University fees are fine then, right? And if the powers that be want to earn £500k, or a cool £1million, then that's also ok, because there's always students with deeper pockets, right? After all, if you stick two people in a room with a tiger, it'll eat twice as much - after all, it's what they do...

It's the government which sets the fees, not the universities - the government moved from the system of essentially central funding of higher education to one where individuals pay. The universities try to make it work for them, just as they would under a different system. Student debt is not their responsibility, and I'd guess they will only worry about it when it adversely effects student numbers i.e. income. The government has created the debt.

What the government (both Labour and Tory) has created is a bunch of perverse incentives which make overseas students more attractive than British ones for British universities. But also, in this age of performance measurement, metrics etc, it's easy to gauge the value of university management - income, student numbers, student satisfaction, research and capital investment attracted, research publications, staff retention and recruitment of top academics etc etc can all be measured.

I agree with the Dipper, I'd like a return to the system which I benefitted from (and which essentially holds true for many European countries). The downside was that it was more exclusive, so it would need to be coupled with investment in skills based education. Do you really need to go to university to become a skilled computer programmer or games designer?

 

[West London Willy]

I didn't, but then the old scheme of free education there did throw up some extremely useless qualifications (a former boss of mine only got her job due to her degree in Ancient Chinese Architecture - not the kind of thing a senior manager in a public service organisation ought to benefit from).

I guess I'd far rather the £400k be spent on educating the students than lining the pockets of the faculty...

 

[Uber_Hoop]

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[rangercol]

It amazes me that so many people are so ready to denigrate the British people and Britain's ability to be able to prosper without the help of the wonderful EU.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

It amazes me that so many people are so ready to denigrate the British people and Britain's ability to be able to prosper without the help of the wonderful EU.

I only posted it cos it was amusing The thing was, however, that the Allegro was **** and it was **** cos it's the British Lada or Trabant, made in a time when the country was being hamstrung by left-leaning unions, unleashed by a weak Labour government.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Another large Muslim *****phile gang convicted of raping underprivileged white children (which they refer to a "trash"). Frighteningly, the police believe this is the tip of the iceberg.

What a steaming pile of **** we have in this country, having imported a medieval culture. And "decent" Muslim communities turn a blind eye to this low life.

 

[durbar2003]

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[sb_73]

Another large Muslim *****phile gang convicted of raping underprivileged white children (which they refer to a "trash"). Frighteningly, the police believe this is the tip of the iceberg.

What a steaming pile of **** we have in this country, having imported a medieval culture. And "decent" Muslim communities turn a blind eye to this low life.

Apparently, if you are a young girl who has had the misfortune to be raped multiple times by members of these predominantly British Pakistani gangs you will be charged with a disorder offence if you refer to their ethnicity while hurling abuse at them.

This has happened, to (the real) victims in the Rochdale case.

 

[sb_73]

Spain and Italy clamping down on airbnb and their ilk as parts of their countries are swamped with tourists, to the detriment of locals trying to find somewhere to live.

Good for them, Barcelona, a brilliant city, has a population of 1.6 million and 30 million tourists a year. On the plus side, all 30 million seem to spend their entire time on the Ramblas, which is ****, leaving the rest of the place nice to wander around.

The net effect will be to make these places more expensive to visit as the number of rooms available drops. Good.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Apparently, if you are a young girl who has had the misfortune to be raped multiple times by members of these predominantly British Pakistani gangs you will be charged with a disorder offence if you refer to their ethnicity while hurling abuse at them.

This has happened, to (the real) victims in the Rochdale case.

Shocking. Certain parts of the media keep referring to the culprits as Asian, but it's a Muslim problem. Until Muslims decide to put their own house in order in the UK, this abuse will go on and prejudice will build up against them.

If I was a Muslim living in the UK, I'd be ashamed (just as if I was a Christian in Pakistan, and Christians were carrying out these crimes against Pakistani children). But many Muslims don't seem to be. They have a "nothing to do with us" mentality and still see themselves as victims.

 

[sb_73]

Shocking. Certain parts of the media keep referring to the culprits as Asian, but it's a Muslim problem. Until Muslims decide to put their own house in order in the UK, this abuse will go on and prejudice will build up against them.

If I was a Muslim living in the UK, I'd be ashamed (just as if I was a Christian in Pakistan, and Christians were carrying out these crimes against Pakistani children). But many Muslims don't seem to be. They have a "nothing to do with us" mentality and still see themselves as victims.

If they are a Muslim woman they have probably been abused every single day of their lives. A religion which regards women as possessions either of their fathers or husbands.

 

[BobbyD]

Shocking. Certain parts of the media keep referring to the culprits as Asian, but it's a Muslim problem. Until Muslims decide to put their own house in order in the UK, this abuse will go on and prejudice will build up against them.

If I was a Muslim living in the UK, I'd be ashamed (just as if I was a Christian in Pakistan, and Christians were carrying out these crimes against Pakistani children). But many Muslims don't seem to be. They have a "nothing to do with us" mentality and still see themselves as victims.

I'm undecided on whether its a muslim or an asian problem (whatever it is, it is certainly cultural).

Not sure i agree with your second part though. Whereas i would feel ashamed of if a chinese person did it and would be annoyed they are making "us" look bad (like there is a general cultural issue with chinese people and manners/entitlement), i know i'm not like that and theres nothing i can do about it so i'm not sure what you want to see visibly done about this.

With respect to not many muslims seem to be ashamed of this... not too sure where you are getting your figures from and the good muslims (under your umbrella) are unfairly getting a rap for this just as normal match going fans get lumped in with the football hooligans

 

[sb_73]

I'm undecided on whether its a muslim or an asian problem (whatever it is, it is certainly cultural).

Not sure i agree with your second part though. Whereas i would feel ashamed of if a chinese person did it and would be annoyed they are making "us" look bad (like there is a general cultural issue with chinese people and manners/entitlement), i know i'm not like that and theres nothing i can do about it so i'm not sure what you want to see visibly done about this.

With respect to not many muslims seem to be ashamed of this... not too sure where you are getting your figures from and the good muslims (under your umbrella) are unfairly getting a rap for this just as normal match going fans get lumped in with the football hooligans

My daughter has just come back from a couple of weeks in India. In general she loved it, but said she got pissed off by being surrounded by young men taking pictures of her and the 15 or so other 17 year old girls she was with on their mobiles. They were always appropriately dressed for the culture, but still got a lot of attention, even in heavily touristed spots (oddly much less so when they were out on the countryside teaching at a primary school). At one stage she and a friend demanded that some bloke delete a photo he had taken (more to see how he would handle it that out of genuine offence) - he pretended not to understand English, but was suitably ashamed when the girls guide (a woman) laid into him in Hindi.

 

[BobbyD]

My daughter has just come back from a couple of weeks in India. In general she loved it, but said she got pissed off by being surrounded by young men taking pictures of her and the 15 or so other 17 year old girls she was with on their mobiles. They were always appropriately dressed for the culture, but still got a lot of attention, even in heavily touristed spots (oddly much less so when they were out on the countryside teaching at a primary school). At one stage she and a friend demanded that some bloke delete a photo he had taken (more to see how he would handle it that out of genuine offence) - he pretended not to understand English, but was suitably ashamed when the girls guide (a woman) laid into him in Hindi.

As i said, that's a cultural thing, i have heard loads of stories from male colleagues who go to rural china and they are amazed (well was at the time dunno about now) to see white people especially ones who have freckles.

The indian culture is very patriachal and whilst there are some who are respectful, theres is a large number who aren't (i can't put a percent obviously). Why i say its cultural, only 14% of indians are muslims, 80% are hindus (source google), a few percent christians, buddishs, sikh etc etc so to blame it on them being muslim rather than them being indian is being ignorant.

Where i do agree that it may be a "muslim" problem is that most of our muslim population have been from migrants from less civilized cultures (india, pakistan, middle east) who are very misogynistic (like we were 50 years ago). Especially with more nad more immigrating over here, you can't just wipe it out as many people will keep with this view and whilst you would hope the next generation is educated, more likely than not these beliefs can be passed down (just like the really chavvy families who pop sprogs out).

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I'm undecided on whether its a muslim or an asian problem (whatever it is, it is certainly cultural).

Not sure i agree with your second part though. Whereas i would feel ashamed of if a chinese person did it and would be annoyed they are making "us" look bad (like there is a general cultural issue with chinese people and manners/entitlement), i know i'm not like that and theres nothing i can do about it so i'm not sure what you want to see visibly done about this.

With respect to not many muslims seem to be ashamed of this... not too sure where you are getting your figures from and the good muslims (under your umbrella) are unfairly getting a rap for this just as normal match going fans get lumped in with the football hooligans

There were a few Muslim leaders coming out after the Manchester bombings to condemn the violence. But too many impenetrably insular Muslim communities just shrug it all off, and there is also a prevailing attitude that brazen white girls deserve what they get.

I can only speak for myself. If I was part of a minority, I'd realise that it does reflect badly when others in the same group behave so heinously. But more importantly, I would press hard for a change in attitude (led by church or mosque) so that victims (young girls in Manchester and now Newcastle) no longer suffer

 

[BobbyD]

There were a few Muslim leaders coming out after the Manchester bombings to condemn the violence. But too many impenetrably insular Muslim communities just shrug it all off, and there is also a prevailing attitude that brazen white girls deserve what they get.

I can only speak for myself. If I was part of a minority, I'd realise that it does reflect badly when others in the same group behave so heinously. But more importantly, I would press hard for a change in attitude (led by church or mosque) so that victims (young girls in Manchester and now Newcastle) no longer suffer

Thats the narrative and i wonder how true it is. I'm not saying they are insular or not and im sure there are ghettos where they cover each other up when there has been no integration but there are something like 4 million muslims and we say half are men there are not anywhere near 2 million freedom fighters and rapists.

I think it is something we need to tackle and there needs to be more powers to the police but the truth is i dont think any of us know how the general community act as none of us are part of them.

You could say that the 3 guys who did that london bridge **** were repeatedly reported in by muslims but nothing happened.

One thing we need to do is deport these ****ers or revoke their citizenship for these disgusting crimes

 

[Stroller]

Thats the narrative and i wonder how true it is. I'm not saying they are insular or not and im sure there are ghettos where they cover each other up when there has been no integration but there are something like 4 million muslims and we say half are men there are not anywhere near 2 million freedom fighters and rapists.

I think it is something we need to tackle and there needs to be more powers to the police but the truth is i dont think any of us know how the general community act as none of us are part of them.

You could say that the 3 guys who did that london bridge **** were repeatedly reported in by muslims but nothing happened.

One thing we need to do is deport these ****ers or revoke their citizenship for these disgusting crimes

Islam is incompatible with our 'Western' lifestyle. I'm tired of our bending over backwards not to offend Muslims. They need to shape up or ship out.

 

[sb_73]

Buried deep in the Brexit Bill is the demonstration that the government really wants to take back control. British citizens will lose their rights to sue the government for failure to implement policy to protect them. For example, they will face no lawsuits for the seven years so far of inactitivity in dealing with the steadily declining air quality in our cities which is now killing people.

As these rights were supported and guaranteed by the EU, as a way to make national governments implement EU directives, and everything to do with the EU is bad, we can all celebrate at this expansion of our liberty.

Meanwhile, despite the weak £ which is meant to boost exports, the trade deficit has grown and manufacturing output has fallen.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Buried deep in the Brexit Bill is the demonstration that the government really wants to take back control. British citizens will lose their rights to sue the government for failure to implement policy to protect them. For example, they will face no lawsuits for the seven years so far of inactitivity in dealing with the steadily declining air quality in our cities which is now killing people.

As these rights were supported and guaranteed by the EU, as a way to make national governments implement EU directives, and everything to do with the EU is bad, we can all celebrate at this expansion of our liberty.

Meanwhile, despite the weak £ which is meant to boost exports, the trade deficit has grown and manufacturing output has fallen.

I'll try to get excited about that, Stan, but at the moment I'm far too worried about the EU ruling on the killer eggs...