Off Topic Trumpy pumpy.

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Jigsawklopp said:
While some inside the Obama administration pressed at the time to make the full scope of the Russian activity public, the White House was ultimately unwilling to risk public confidence in the election’s integrity, people familiar with those discussions said.
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That would explain why, when Trump was the one during the campaign making all the noise about a rigged election, Obama said he was being irresponsible and not showing leadership qualities by questioning the electoral system, which by its devolved nature couldn't be rigged. Of course it's devolved nature is why the "popular vote" so often cited by the Democrats meant nothing and is unlikely to in the future, unless they change the electoral college system next time they win. And what are the chances of that?
 
Muppetfinder General said:
I felt like the only one who saw the irony in the Guardian slagging him off for a typo.
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Whereas his typo was mildly amusing, I don't think it was funny enough to merit all the hype it got.

What was far funnier but got much less coverage was Sean Spicer's response (not verbatim)

"A small group of informed individuals know exactly what he meant".
 
Does anyone else think that at this point amaerica word is not worth the 2 pesos that wall idea is worth?

I mean trumps gone back on every binding agreement made possible at this point.
 
The name of each and every **** in The House that think it's a good idea to keep our nurses, firefighters and teachers on 1% for another three years at least:

Noes
==========
Nigel Adams (Conservative - Selby and Ainsty)
Bim Afolami (Conservative - Hitchin and Harpenden)
Adam Afriyie (Conservative - Windsor)
Peter Aldous (Conservative - Waveney)
Lucy Allan (Conservative - Telford)
Heidi Allen (Conservative - South Cambridgeshire)
Stuart Andrew (Conservative - Pudsey)
Edward Argar (Conservative - Charnwood)
Victoria Atkins (Conservative - Louth and Horncastle)
Mr Richard Bacon (Conservative - South Norfolk)
Mrs Kemi Badenoch (Conservative - Saffron Walden)
Mr Steve Baker (Conservative - Wycombe)
Harriett Baldwin (Conservative - West Worcestershire)
Stephen Barclay (Conservative - North East Cambridgeshire)
Mr John Baron (Conservative - Basildon and Billericay)
Guto Bebb (Conservative - Aberconwy)
Sir Henry Bellingham (Conservative - North West Norfolk)
Richard Benyon (Conservative - Newbury)
Sir Paul Beresford (Conservative - Mole Valley)
Jake Berry (Conservative - Rossendale and Darwen)
Bob Blackman (Conservative - Harrow East)
Crispin Blunt (Conservative - Reigate)
Nick Boles (Conservative - Grantham and Stamford)
Mr Peter Bone (Conservative - Wellingborough)
Sir Peter Bottomley (Conservative - Worthing West)
Andrew C Bowie (Conservative - West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine)
Ben Bradley (Conservative - Mansfield)
Karen Bradley (Conservative - Staffordshire Moorlands)
Mr Graham Brady (Conservative - Altrincham and Sale West)
Jack Brereton (Conservative - Stoke-on-Trent South)
Andrew Bridgen (Conservative - North West Leicestershire)
Steve Brine (Conservative - Winchester)
James Brokenshire (Conservative - Old Bexley and Sidcup)
Fiona Bruce (Conservative - Congleton)
Robert Buckland (Conservative - South Swindon)
Alex Burghart (Conservative - Brentwood and Ongar)
Conor Burns (Conservative - Bournemouth West)
Alistair Burt (Conservative - North East Bedfordshire)
Alun Cairns (Conservative - Vale of Glamorgan)
Mr Gregory Campbell (Democratic Unionist Party - East Londonderry)
James Cartlidge (Conservative - South Suffolk)
Sir William Cash (Conservative - Stone)
Maria Caulfield (Conservative - Lewes)
Alex Chalk (Conservative - Cheltenham)
Rehman Chishti (Conservative - Gillingham and Rainham)
Mr Christopher Chope (Conservative - Christchurch)
Jo Churchill (Conservative - Bury St Edmunds)
Colin Clark (Conservative - Gordon)
Greg Clark (Conservative - Tunbridge Wells)
Mr Kenneth Clarke (Conservative - Rushcliffe)
Mr Simon Clarke (Conservative - Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland)
James Cleverly (Conservative - Braintree)
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Conservative - The Cotswolds)
Dr Thérèse Coffey (Conservative - Suffolk Coastal)
Damian Collins (Conservative - Folkestone and Hythe)
Alberto Costa (Conservative - South Leicestershire)
Robert Courts (Conservative - Witney)
Mr Geoffrey Cox (Conservative - Torridge and West Devon)
Stephen Crabb (Conservative - Preseli Pembrokeshire)
Tracey Crouch (Conservative - Chatham and Aylesford)
Chris Davies (Conservative - Brecon and Radnorshire)
David T. C. Davies (Conservative - Monmouth)
Glyn Davies (Conservative - Montgomeryshire)
Mims Davies (Conservative - Eastleigh)
Philip Davies (Conservative - Shipley)
Mr David Davis (Conservative - Haltemprice and Howden)
Caroline Dinenage (Conservative - Gosport)
Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Conservative - Huntingdon)
Leo Docherty (Conservative - Aldershot)
Julia Dockerill (Conservative - Hornchurch and Upminster)
Nigel Dodds (Democratic Unionist Party - Belfast North)
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Democratic Unionist Party - Lagan Valley)
Michelle Donelan (Conservative - Chippenham)
Ms Nadine Dorries (Conservative - Mid Bedfordshire)
Steve Double (Conservative - St Austell and Newquay)
Oliver Dowden (Conservative - Hertsmere)
Jackie Doyle-Price (Conservative - Thurrock)
Richard Drax (Conservative - South Dorset)
James Duddridge (Conservative - Rochford and Southend East)
David Duguid (Conservative - Banff and Buchan)
Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Conservative - Chingford and Woodford Green)
Sir Alan Duncan (Conservative - Rutland and Melton)
Mr Philip Dunne (Conservative - Ludlow)
Michael Ellis (Conservative - Northampton North)
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Conservative - Bournemouth East)
Charlie Elphicke (Conservative - Dover)
George Eustice (Conservative - Camborne and Redruth)
Mr Nigel Evans (Conservative - Ribble Valley)
David Evennett (Conservative - Bexleyheath and Crayford)
Michael Fabricant (Conservative - Lichfield)
Sir Michael Fallon (Conservative - Sevenoaks)
Suella Fernandes (Conservative - Fareham)
Mark Field (Conservative - Cities of London and Westminster)
Vicky Ford (Conservative - Chelmsford)
Kevin Foster (Conservative - Torbay)
Dr Liam Fox (Conservative - North Somerset)
Mr Mark Francois (Conservative - Rayleigh and Wickford)
Lucy Frazer (Conservative - South East Cambridgeshire)
George Freeman (Conservative - Mid Norfolk)
Mike Freer (Conservative - Finchley and Golders Green)
Mr Marcus Fysh (Conservative - Yeovil)
Sir Roger Gale (Conservative - North Thanet)
Mark Garnier (Conservative - Wyre Forest)
Mr David Gauke (Conservative - South West Hertfordshire)
Ms Nusrat Ghani (Conservative - Wealden)
Nick Gibb (Conservative - Bognor Regis and Littlehampton)
Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Conservative - Chesham and Amersham)
Paul Girvan (Democratic Unionist Party - South Antrim)
John Glen (Conservative - Salisbury)
Zac Goldsmith (Conservative - Richmond Park)
Mr Robert Goodwill (Conservative - Scarborough and Whitby)
Michael Gove (Conservative - Surrey Heath)
Luke Graham (Conservative - Ochil and South Perthshire)
Richard Graham (Conservative - Gloucester)
Bill Grant (Conservative - Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock)
Mrs Helen Grant (Conservative - Maidstone and The Weald)
James Gray (Conservative - North Wiltshire)
Chris Grayling (Conservative - Epsom and Ewell)
Chris Green (Conservative - Bolton West)
Damian Green (Conservative - Ashford)
Justine Greening (Conservative - Putney)
Mr Dominic Grieve (Conservative - Beaconsfield)
Mr Sam Gyimah (Conservative - East Surrey)
Kirstene Hair (Conservative - Angus)
Robert Halfon (Conservative - Harlow)
Luke Hall (Conservative - Thornbury and Yate)
Mr Philip Hammond (Conservative - Runnymede and Weybridge)
Stephen Hammond (Conservative - Wimbledon)
Matt Hancock (Conservative - West Suffolk)
Greg Hands (Conservative - Chelsea and Fulham)
Mr Mark Harper (Conservative - Forest of Dean)
Richard Harrington (Conservative - Watford)
Rebecca Harris (Conservative - Castle Point)
Trudy Harrison (Conservative - Copeland)
Simon Hart (Conservative - Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire)
Mr John Hayes (Conservative - South Holland and The Deepings)
Sir Oliver Heald (Conservative - North East Hertfordshire)
James Heappey (Conservative - Wells)
Chris Heaton-Harris (Conservative - Daventry)
Peter Heaton-Jones (Conservative - North Devon)
Gordon Henderson (Conservative - Sittingbourne and Sheppey)
Nick Herbert (Conservative - Arundel and South Downs)
Damian Hinds (Conservative - East Hampshire)
Simon Hoare (Conservative - North Dorset)
George Hollingbery (Conservative - Meon Valley)
Kevin Hollinrake (Conservative - Thirsk and Malton)
Mr Philip Hollobone (Conservative - Kettering)
Adam Holloway (Conservative - Gravesham)
John Howell (Conservative - Henley)
Nigel Huddleston (Conservative - Mid Worcestershire)
Eddie Hughes (Conservative - Walsall North)
Mr Jeremy Hunt (Conservative - South West Surrey)
Mr Nick Hurd (Conservative - Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner)
Mr Alister Jack (Conservative - Dumfries and Galloway)
Margot James (Conservative - Stourbridge)
Sajid Javid (Conservative - Bromsgrove)
Mr Ranil Jayawardena (Conservative - North East Hampshire)
Mr Bernard Jenkin (Conservative - Harwich and North Essex)
Andrea Jenkyns (Conservative - Morley and Outwood)
Robert Jenrick (Conservative - Newark)
Boris Johnson (Conservative - Uxbridge and South Ruislip)
Dr Caroline Johnson (Conservative - Sleaford and North Hykeham)
Gareth Johnson (Conservative - Dartford)
Joseph Johnson (Conservative - Orpington)
Andrew Jones (Conservative - Harrogate and Knaresborough)
Mr David Jones (Conservative - Clwyd West)
Mr Marcus Jones (Conservative - Nuneaton)
Daniel Kawczynski (Conservative - Shrewsbury and Atcham)
Gillian Keegan (Conservative - Chichester)
Seema Kennedy (Conservative - South Ribble)
Stephen Kerr (Conservative - Stirling)
Julian Knight (Conservative - Solihull)
Sir Greg Knight (Conservative - East Yorkshire)
Kwasi Kwarteng (Conservative - Spelthorne)
John Lamont (Conservative - Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk)
Mark Lancaster (Conservative - Milton Keynes North)
Mrs Pauline Latham (Conservative - Mid Derbyshire)
Andrea Leadsom (Conservative - South Northamptonshire)
Dr Phillip Lee (Conservative - Bracknell)
Jeremy Lefroy (Conservative - Stafford)
Sir Edward Leigh (Conservative - Gainsborough)
Sir Oliver Letwin (Conservative - West Dorset)
Andrew Lewer (Conservative - Northampton South)
Brandon Lewis (Conservative - Great Yarmouth)
Dr Julian Lewis (Conservative - New Forest East)
Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Conservative - Bridgwater and West Somerset)
Mr David Lidington (Conservative - Aylesbury)
Emma Little Pengelly (Democratic Unionist Party - Belfast South)
Jack Lopresti (Conservative - Filton and Bradley Stoke)
Mr Jonathan Lord (Conservative - Woking)
Tim Loughton (Conservative - East Worthing and Shoreham)
Craig Mackinlay (Conservative - South Thanet)
Rachel Maclean (Conservative - Redditch)
Mrs Anne Main (Conservative - St Albans)
Alan Mak (Conservative - Havant)
Kit Malthouse (Conservative - North West Hampshire)
Scott Mann (Conservative - North Cornwall)
Paul Masterton (Conservative - East Renfrewshire)
Mrs Theresa May (Conservative - Maidenhead)
Paul Maynard (Conservative - Blackpool North and Cleveleys)
Sir Patrick McLoughlin (Conservative - Derbyshire Dales)
Stephen McPartland (Conservative - Stevenage)
Esther McVey (Conservative - Tatton)
Mark Menzies (Conservative - Fylde)
Johnny Mercer (Conservative - Plymouth, Moor View)
Huw Merriman (Conservative - Bexhill and Battle)
Stephen Metcalfe (Conservative - South Basildon and East Thurrock)
Mrs Maria Miller (Conservative - Basingstoke)
Amanda Milling (Conservative - Cannock Chase)
Nigel Mills (Conservative - Amber Valley)
Anne Milton (Conservative - Guildford)
Mr Andrew Mitchell (Conservative - Sutton Coldfield)
Damien Moore (Conservative - Southport)
Penny Mordaunt (Conservative - Portsmouth North)
Nicky Morgan (Conservative - Loughborough)
Anne Marie Morris (Conservative - Newton Abbot)
David Morris (Conservative - Morecambe and Lunesdale)
James Morris (Conservative - Halesowen and Rowley Regis)
Wendy Morton (Conservative - Aldridge-Brownhills)
David Mundell (Conservative - Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale)
Mrs Sheryll Murray (Conservative - South East Cornwall)
Dr Andrew Murrison (Conservative - South West Wiltshire)
Robert Neill (Conservative - Bromley and Chislehurst)
Sarah Newton (Conservative - Truro and Falmouth)
Caroline Nokes (Conservative - Romsey and Southampton North)
Jesse Norman (Conservative - Hereford and South Herefordshire)
Neil O'Brien (Conservative - Harborough)
Dr Matthew Offord (Conservative - Hendon)
Guy Opperman (Conservative - Hexham)
Ian Paisley (Democratic Unionist Party - North Antrim)
Neil Parish (Conservative - Tiverton and Honiton)
Priti Patel (Conservative - Witham)
Mr Owen Paterson (Conservative - North Shropshire)
Mark Pawsey (Conservative - Rugby)
Mike Penning (Conservative - Hemel Hempstead)
John Penrose (Conservative - Weston-super-Mare)
Andrew Percy (Conservative - Brigg and Goole)
Claire Perry (Conservative - Devizes)
Chris Philp (Conservative - Croydon South)
Christopher Pincher (Conservative - Tamworth)
Dr Dan Poulter (Conservative - Central Suffolk and North Ipswich)
Rebecca Pow (Conservative - Taunton Deane)
Victoria Prentis (Conservative - Banbury)
Mr Mark Prisk (Conservative - Hertford and Stortford)
Mark Pritchard (Conservative - The Wrekin)
Tom Pursglove (Conservative - Corby)
Jeremy Quin (Conservative - Horsham)
Will Quince (Conservative - Colchester)
Dominic Raab (Conservative - Esher and Walton)
John Redwood (Conservative - Wokingham)
Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg (Conservative - North East Somerset)
Mr Laurence Robertson (Conservative - Tewkesbury)
Gavin Robinson (Democratic Unionist Party - Belfast East)
Mary Robinson (Conservative - Cheadle)
Andrew Rosindell (Conservative - Romford)
Douglas Ross (Conservative - Moray)
Lee Rowley (Conservative - North East Derbyshire)
Amber Rudd (Conservative - Hastings and Rye)
David Rutley (Conservative - Macclesfield)
Antoinette Sandbach (Conservative - Eddisbury)
Paul Scully (Conservative - Sutton and Cheam)
Mr Bob Seely (Conservative - Isle of Wight)
Andrew Selous (Conservative - South West Bedfordshire)
Jim Shannon (Democratic Unionist Party - Strangford)
Grant Shapps (Conservative - Welwyn Hatfield)
Alok Sharma (Conservative - Reading West)
Alec Shelbrooke (Conservative - Elmet and Rothwell)
David Simpson (Democratic Unionist Party - Upper Bann)
Mr Keith Simpson (Conservative - Broadland)
Chris Skidmore (Conservative - Kingswood)
Chloe Smith (Conservative - Norwich North)
Henry Smith (Conservative - Crawley)
Julian Smith (Conservative - Skipton and Ripon)
Royston Smith (Conservative - Southampton, Itchen)
Sir Nicholas Soames (Conservative - Mid Sussex)
Anna Soubry (Conservative - Broxtowe)
Dame Caroline Spelman (Conservative - Meriden)
Mark Spencer (Conservative - Sherwood)
Andrew Stephenson (Conservative - Pendle)
John Stevenson (Conservative - Carlisle)
Bob Stewart (Conservative - Beckenham)
Iain Stewart (Conservative - Milton Keynes South)
Rory Stewart (Conservative - Penrith and The Border)
Mr Gary Streeter (Conservative - South West Devon)
Mel Stride (Conservative - Central Devon)
Graham Stuart (Conservative - Beverley and Holderness)
Julian Sturdy (Conservative - York Outer)
Rishi Sunak (Conservative - Richmond (Yorks))
Sir Desmond Swayne (Conservative - New Forest West)
Sir Hugo Swire (Conservative - East Devon)
Mr Robert Syms (Conservative - Poole)
Derek Thomas (Conservative - St Ives)
Ross Thomson (Conservative - Aberdeen South)
Maggie Throup (Conservative - Erewash)
Kelly Tolhurst (Conservative - Rochester and Strood)
Justin Tomlinson (Conservative - North Swindon)
Michael Tomlinson (Conservative - Mid Dorset and North Poole)
Craig Tracey (Conservative - North Warwickshire)
David Tredinnick (Conservative - Bosworth)
Mrs Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Conservative - Berwick-upon-Tweed)
Elizabeth Truss (Conservative - South West Norfolk)
Tom Tugendhat (Conservative - Tonbridge and Malling)
Mr Edward Vaizey (Conservative - Wantage)
Mr Shailesh Vara (Conservative - North West Cambridgeshire)
Martin Vickers (Conservative - Cleethorpes)
Theresa Villiers (Conservative - Chipping Barnet)
Mr Charles Walker (Conservative - Broxbourne)
Mr Robin Walker (Conservative - Worcester)
Mr Ben Wallace (Conservative - Wyre and Preston North)
David Warburton (Conservative - Somerton and Frome)
Matt Warman (Conservative - Boston and Skegness)
Giles Watling (Conservative - Clacton)
Helen Whately (Conservative - Faversham and Mid Kent)
Craig Whittaker (Conservative - Calder Valley)
Mr John Whittingdale (Conservative - Maldon)
Bill Wiggin (Conservative - North Herefordshire)
Gavin Williamson (Conservative - South Staffordshire)
Sammy Wilson (Democratic Unionist Party - East Antrim)
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Conservative - Totnes)
Mike Wood (Conservative - Dudley South)
Mr William Wragg (Conservative - Hazel Grove)
Jeremy Wright (Conservative - Kenilworth and Southam)
Nadhim Zahawi (Conservative - Stratford-on-Avon)
 
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Each and every one of us has reason to be grateful to the NHS and the emergency services. Just remember that - this junta can't hang on forever.
 
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Thought we had closed the politics threads. All politicians are in it for their own vanity and to line their pockets, if you believe any of them are in it out of pure altruism you are a mug, except for Dave Nellist who is just naive.
 
Garlic Klopp said:
Thought we had closed the politics threads. All politicians are in it for their own vanity and to line their pockets, if you believe any of them are in it out of pure altruism you are a mug, except for Dave Nellist who is just naive.
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Are we going to close all the music, tv, film, cricket, science...indeed anything not directly to do with LFC as there are specific boards for them? In fact, any references to other clubs, international games, CL games - they all have their own board. There's a way of dealing with threads which don't interest you, you know?
 
Garlic Klopp said:
Thought we had closed the politics threads. All politicians are in it for their own vanity and to line their pockets, if you believe any of them are in it out of pure altruism you are a mug, except for Dave Nellist who is just naive.
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They are a rare breed but there are a few decent politicians.......Is it Denis Skinner who refuses to accept his full MP's salary and instead takes
the average wage within his constituency?
 
organic red said:
They are a rare breed but there are a few decent politicians.......Is it Denis Skinner who refuses to accept his full MP's salary and instead takes
the average wage within his constituency?
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Just as an aside (before Garlic closes me down). I was watching the fuss today about allowing male members (snicker) to no longer wear ties. Some Tory turdburger called Peter Bone was bemoaning about how if this tradition was allowed to be circumvented, what would be next? (The Tory exclamation to everything from stopping children going down mines to stopping them going up chimneys too).

And then you see the floor of the Commons, and the two red lines on the floor, beyond which both sides are not allowed to pass across during a debate. And the distance between the two lines? Two swords' length and one inch.

I'm reminded of that by the mention of Dennis Skinner, who was in a programme about the Commons a few decades ago and revealed - to me anyway - that they still have a hook to hang their swords on in the Commons toilets.
 
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donga darko said:
Just as an aside (before Garlic closes me down). I was watching the fuss today about allowing male members (snicker) to no longer wear ties. Some Tory turdburger called Peter Bone was bemoaning about how if this tradition was allowed to be circumvented, what would be next? (The Tory exclamation to everything from stopping children going down mines to stopping them going up chimneys too).

And then you see the floor of the Commons, and the two red lines on the floor, beyond which both sides are not allowed to pass across during a debate. And the distance between the two lines? Two swords' length and one inch.

I'm reminded of that by the mention of Dennis Skinner, who was in a programme about the Commons a few decades ago and revealed - to me anyway - that they still have a hook to hang their swords on in the Commons toilets.
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That's nice but a Tory with a scraping majority refusing to answer questions on grounds of no tie smacks of petulant arrogance.
 
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Really depressed watching Newsnight last night. Ken Clarke, supposedly a left-wing Tory, was on giving a 1001 reasons why the 1% pay cap should stay - primarily built around, not so much if we can find the money (we can), but the usual Tory dogma about 'How will the markets react?'. Western Society now serves the market, not the other way around.

Anyway, as for Clarke, Major's axeman when it came to the economy, we're talking about a guy who referred to paramedics as 'Van drivers'. The usual arse about the state that Labour left the economy in (well Ken, what would you have done in 2008 after the Leeman-led crash? Ben Bennake reckons Brown and darling saved the whole western economy by their example. Perhaps they shouldn't have), but what he doesn't say is that he oversaw a five year austerity programme in 1992 after the ERM debacle, 15% interest rates, and the Tories had crashed the economy leading to repossessions and a depression all of their own making. They usually don't mention that one.

Anyway, here's how I reckon it should be - MP's pay (and all politicians allowances in both Houses and local government) should be pegged to the lowest public sector pay agreements. In fact, back date it to 2010. What sort of society does not recognise the crisis in nursing brought about by recruitment and retention impossibilities,driven by the rock-headed intransigence to pay no more than 1% for seven years, yet still clings to a clearly failed policy because 'It might scare the markets'? As Emerson (not of ELP) once said, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. And what small minds they are that sneer at nurses, as Clarke did last night, as the 'darlings of those who'd bankrupt us'. Arrogant, fat ****. And now that failed turd Cameron is piling in to say how we mustn't dump austerity. But obviously not for the private companies such as bank-nursing agencies in the NHS, those in privatised prisons, the railways, education and care homes that are laughing all the way to the bank on public money - no austerity for May's husband there.
 
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Do you think this is a North Korean version of Tory Isobel Oakeshott, or is it the other way around?
 
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