Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Star of David Bardsley]

The EU visitor thing was always in our control because of out Schengen opt out, it was just our border authority was rubbish and is still not fit for purpose.

So fishing, is that it?

Seems worth the hassle

Fishing and the eight billion TURKS who will all be living next door to YOU the day after voting Remain maybe probably.

 

[Stroller]

Tories in absolute disarray with various factions suggesting u-turns on public sector pay, tuition fees, hard Brexit, basically anything they were saying a few weeks back. They are plainly terrified - who won the election again? Meanwhile, May is apparently planning to walk out of Brexit negotiations over the 'divorce' settlement - a move designed for domestic consumption, showing her to be a bloody difficult woman. What a mess.

Oh, and another poll out today shows the country would vote to Remain (by 54-46) if there was a second referendum.

 

[sb_73]

Tories in absolute disarray with various factions suggesting u-turns on public sector pay, tuition fees, hard Brexit, basically anything they were saying a few weeks back. They are plainly terrified - who won the election again? Meanwhile, May is apparently planning to walk out of Brexit negotiations over the 'divorce' settlement - a move designed for domestic consumption, showing her to be a bloody difficult woman. What a mess.

Oh, and another poll out today shows the country would vote to Remain (by 54-46) if there was a second referendum.

I had a stupid daydream yesterday of some kind of 'progressive alliance' between moderate Labour, left One Nation remainer Tories, Lib Dems, perhaps some SNPs which would be brought together by a non Brexit or second referendum, commitment to a more balanced economy and a dislike of ideology. Of course it wouldn't work because these gimps are so tied to their parties. And it lacks any obvious leaders. But perhaps edging closer as Corbyn's mob prepares to deselect moderate labour MPs (Liz Kendall threatened with this 48 hours after the election), and talk of a new centre left party gathering steam.

May looking increasingly isolated, her vision of Brexit shared now only by the usual nutters, even Davis and Johnson looking at something more Norwegian.

 

[West London Willy]

Fishing and the eight billion TURKS who will all be living next door to YOU the day after voting Remain maybe probably.

That was proved to be a lie, Turkey was never going to be admitted to the EU. Keep up...

So fishing, yes?

 

[West London Willy]

Being out of Schengen merely meant we were allowed to see a passport - then we had to let the EU visitor come and live here unless we were able to establish they were a serious criminal record. This is at the heart of the Brexit vote, Willy

Our border authorities were useless at determining any reasons why people shouldn't be admitted. That's why I called them unfit for purpose. Thanks for agreeing with me...

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

That was proved to be a lie, Turkey was never going to be admitted to the EU. Keep up...

So fishing, yes?

I was joking. Hence the sensationalist Mail-style YOU!

AND YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT

 

[West London Willy]

Still just fishing then? Hardly seems worth it....

 

[Stroller]

I had a stupid daydream yesterday of some kind of 'progressive alliance' between moderate Labour, left One Nation remainer Tories, Lib Dems, perhaps some SNPs which would be brought together by a non Brexit or second referendum, commitment to a more balanced economy and a dislike of ideology. Of course it wouldn't work because these gimps are so tied to their parties. And it lacks any obvious leaders. But perhaps edging closer as Corbyn's mob prepares to deselect moderate labour MPs (Liz Kendall threatened with this 48 hours after the election), and talk of a new centre left party gathering steam.

May looking increasingly isolated, her vision of Brexit shared now only by the usual nutters, even Davis and Johnson looking at something more Norwegian.

It's quite remarkable how the ground has shifted leftwards in a short space of time. Blairism in the Labour party is dead, but so it seems is austerity under the Tories and, hopefully, hard Brexit. I don't think that the Blairites who plotted against Corbyn should be described as moderates as if the Corbyn manifesto was some kind of Marxist aberration, it's merely a return to what the Labour party should represent.

It's puzzling that May, someone who was supposedly on the Remain side, should be so committed to the barmy Brexit course that she seems to be on. But then it's hard to decipher exactly what the Labour party position is. They managed to avoid getting pinned down on it during the election campaign, but I get the feeling that Norway would be their preference.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

It's quite remarkable how the ground has shifted leftwards in a short space of time. Blairism in the Labour party is dead, but so it seems is austerity under the Tories and, hopefully, hard Brexit. I don't think that the Blairites who plotted against Corbyn should be described as moderates as if the Corbyn manifesto was some kind of Marxist aberration, it's merely a return to what the Labour party should represent.

It's puzzling that May, someone who was supposedly on the Remain side, should be so committed to the barmy Brexit course that she seems to be on. But then it's hard to decipher exactly what the Labour party position is. They managed to avoid getting pinned down on it during the election campaign, but I get the feeling that Norway would be their preference.

If Corbyn starts deselecting Blairite MP's to put his own candidates in, it seems highly probable that the Blairites will form a new party - there's talk today of funding coming from Blair or JK Rowling. The deselection process may purify Corbyn's Labour, but a competing Labour 2 Party will give him a helluva headache at by-elections and a general election

 

[Stroller]

If Corbyn starts deselecting Blairite MP's to put his own candidates in, it seems highly probable that the Blairites will form a new party - there's talk today of funding coming from Blair or JK Rowling. The deselection process may purify Corbyn's Labour, but a competing Labour 2 Party will give him a helluva headache at by-elections and a general election

Times are changing, Goldie. A new centrist party might leave the Tories as the extremists.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Times are changing, Goldie. A new centrist party might leave the Tories as the extremists.

I see nothing wrong with proper parties with honest policies and convictions irrespective of whether they're seen as too much to the left or too much to the right. What I don't like is politicians constantly playing the populist card and trying to be all things to all men when it's plain that they ain't nuffink of the sort.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Times are changing, Goldie. A new centrist party might leave the Tories as the extremists.

Possibly, Strolls. I can't see the Tories losing many votes to a Blair's New Labour 2, but perhaps if the new party got Hilary Benn or David Miliband to head it up... I still feel more votes will leak from Corbyn and, following the rebellion over the Single Market vote last week, he must be weighing up this risk.

 

[kiwiqpr]

I think we might get a result most people can live with by the 17th European union referendum

 

[West London Willy]

As I said a few pages back....

The other thing that I think needs to happen, in the media and with the population, is movement away from the extremes. We live in a very polarised society, with the hard right and the hard left dictating the agenda. That has to be countered by people in the centre, who understand the need to work together to build the nation up again. Who get it that some people have more than others, that some people get paid far more than others, and that being successful and wealthy isn't a crime. But with that privilege and success comes responsibility to those whose circumstances don't allow them the opportunities to manage on their own without assistance. So a government that caters for the needy in society whilst allowing the aspirations of people to succeed (both lifestyle-wise and financially). We're a way away from it at the moment, because the Lib Dems are failing to make anything really happen in that space. But I think it's coming, and that (for me) can only make our society more inclusive, more tolerant, and well, more British.

 

[sb_73]

It's quite remarkable how the ground has shifted leftwards in a short space of time. Blairism in the Labour party is dead, but so it seems is austerity under the Tories and, hopefully, hard Brexit. I don't think that the Blairites who plotted against Corbyn should be described as moderates as if the Corbyn manifesto was some kind of Marxist aberration, it's merely a return to what the Labour party should represent.

It's puzzling that May, someone who was supposedly on the Remain side, should be so committed to the barmy Brexit course that she seems to be on. But then it's hard to decipher exactly what the Labour party position is. They managed to avoid getting pinned down on it during the election campaign, but I get the feeling that Norway would be their preference.

The proper, socialist position on the EU should be instant hard Brexit, and that's what I think Corbyn and his ilk would like, they are old Bennites, and he thought that the socialist paradise could be delivered in a country completely cut off from the rest of the world, especially the international financial system. Good luck with that, though Kim Jong Un and his forebears are giving it a good go. I hope the Labour Party does split, it is no longer the broad church that I grew up with, and then we can see what a truly socialist manifesto looks like. McDonnell of course is a Marxist, though he seems a little embarrassed to admit it sometimes.

They have done their job, broken the back of a myopic austerity policy which exclusively attacked the public sector and disadvantaged and left the privileged untouched. Now they can take their old fashioned ideas back to the support Hamas and Maduro rallies as far as I'm concerned. I finally got round to seeing Corbyn's Glastonbury performance, which I see he is repeating wherever he can find a mob. He's quite good at chanting slogans and populism probably because he believes it.

Sorry, I've just heard a victim of the Grenfell fire going on about class war and collectivisation on the wireless. I'm sick of the exploitation and politicisation of this tragedy, by primarily the Labour left. Abbott was given a remarkably easy ride on the Broadcasting House programme this morning, and was singing the same tune, much as she was after the attack on the Muslims in Finsbury, but never after an Islamic terror attack.

I voted Labour last time, but I won't again if I think this version stands a chance of winning.

 

[bobmid]

If a victim of the tragedy is going on about the 'class war' then how can you be sick of it being politicised. Surely they were the ones who vented their anger and marched to the council offices with their grievances making it political. You can't blame any party for that.

 

[sb_73]

If a victim of the tragedy is going on about the 'class war' then how can you be sick of it being politicised. Surely they were the ones who vented their anger and marched to the council offices with their grievances making it political. You can't blame any party for that.

The vocabulary he was using clearly wasn't his own. Venting anger is fair and right, spouting agitprop slogans which have obviously been fed to (some of) the victims is a different matter.

Obviously there is more than a little politics involved in this tragedy, and those politicians involved in disgraceful decision making and neglect must be held to account. My concerns are about exploitation of the event for broader political ends. Doubtless the Tories would be doing the same if they were in opposition, but I doubt they would have been out with their placards at the scene the day after the fire.

 

[bobmid]

The vocabulary he was using clearly wasn't his own. Venting anger is fair and right, spouting agitprop slogans which have obviously been fed to (some of) the victims is a different matter.

Obviously there is more than a little politics involved in this tragedy, and those politicians involved in disgraceful decision making and neglect must be held to account. My concerns are about exploitation of the event for broader political ends. Doubtless the Tories would be doing the same if they were in opposition, but I doubt they would have been out with their placards at the scene the day after the fire.

Im pretty sure they don't need spoon feeding any political sway. It's a no brainer for whom the poorer of our society will swing towards.

 

[bobmid]

Didnt personally see any placards so will take your word for that. Did see the leader of one party meeting victims and relatives of victims. Was it done for political gain...of course it was. Is that a bad thing? The victims certainly didn't seem to think so. I also saw a leader of another party swerve the victims and talk to some emergency service members who she would later celebrate against a pay rise for. Common sense above anything else shows the massive gap between what these 2 parties stand for. I by the way didn't vote for either. I went lib dems as my local mp is and was a great man for our area. Our Labour mp is very rarely seen and in all honesty I couldn't even tell you the name of our local Tory mp never mind what he looks like!

 

[sb_73]

Didnt personally see any placards so will take your word for that. Did see the leader of one party meeting victims and relatives of victims. Was it done for political gain...of course it was. Is that a bad thing? The victims certainly didn't seem to think so. I also saw a leader of another party swerve the victims and talk to some emergency service members who she would later celebrate against a pay rise for. Common sense above anything else shows the massive gap between what these 2 parties stand for. I by the way didn't vote for either. I went lib dems as my local mp is and was a great man for our area. Our Labour mp is very rarely seen and in all honesty I couldn't even tell you the name of our local Tory mp never mind what he looks like!

How many MPs have you got!

Frankly Bob I'm tired of all of them and am reacting badly. Ignore me for a bit. My mood will be lifted by the rib of beef I am preparing, and the Cotes du Rhone I have just opened.