Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
TheBigDipper said:
There were plenty of instances where Farron addressed the conflict between his views and his leaders role in just the way you suggested. The media found it productive for propagating their preferences to comment snidely and paraphrase in their headlines and top paragraphs before sometimes deigning to actually quote him somewhere near the bottom. As I'm fond of saying, most people don't get past the headlines before they form (or more often, reinforce) their opinion. Many then focused on his appearance as if that were a valid critique of what he said.

I think the Lib Dems will be better off with a more secular leader and Farron will be personally happier. He wasn't good at it and the Lib Dems made a mistake focusing on Remaining as their main policy. Compared to austerity and social inequality, it has no traction and they couldn't convince voters to agree that it was the most important issue and therefore vote for it. I didn't, and I'm a natural Liberal voter.
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We clearly have slightly different perspectives on this. The media gave him a rough time, perhaps unfairly and certainly not in a very enlightened way, but I saw the interviews and thought he was obviously very uncomfortable and came across as disingenuous - he didn't, as far as I can remember, say he thought gay sex was a sin, but what others do is their business. He said 'we are all sinners' but claimed his personal faith was separate from his political beliefs, which was clearly untrue as he has now admitted. Anyway, as you say, he was a weak leader. I do think the beliefs of our representatives are relevant to voters, because if the beliefs are sincere and deeply held they really should dictate their approach to policy. Obviously most people, including politicians, who say they are Christians are so in an almost entirely nominal sense, it's not a daily element of their lives.
 
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East Herts Rangers said:
I have no time for liberals, but would Farron have been challenged on his religious beliefs if he had been Muslim ?

Thought not.
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If he (Farron the muslim that is) had been asked about gay partnerships and prevaricated as much as Farron (the Christian) had, yes I think he would have.
 
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East Herts Rangers said:
I have no time for liberals, but would Farron have been challenged on his religious beliefs if he had been Muslim ?

Thought not.
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I understand the underlying point you're making, but the answer is "Yes". I seem to remember there was plenty of that from some areas during the last election for Mayor of London.

If your political opponent thinks your religious beliefs can be used against you, then an opponent will find a way to use it and some voters will be receptive to it.
 
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sb_73 said:
.

There are 40,000 nursing position vacancies in the NHS. From January to July last year between 600 and 1300 nurses from the EU were registering with the various nursing bodies per month. Since August last year numbers have declined from 750 down every month to the grand total of 46 in April.
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was this part of the reason sb
amazed it wasn't always a requirement

The NMC has also drawn attention to the introduction of English language tests, which were brought in for EU nurses for the first time in January 2016 - they were already in use for non-EU nurses.
It normally takes a few months from being tested to making it on to the register so officials believe this could have also played a role in the drop in numbers.
 
kiwiqpr said:
was this part of the reason sb
amazed it wasn't always a requirement

The NMC has also drawn attention to the introduction of English language tests, which were brought in for EU nurses for the first time in January 2016 - they were already in use for non-EU nurses.
It normally takes a few months from being tested to making it on to the register so officials believe this could have also played a role in the drop in numbers.
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Have to say that I would have thought it vital that a nurse can speak the language of the patient!!
 
kiwiqpr said:
was this part of the reason sb
amazed it wasn't always a requirement

The NMC has also drawn attention to the introduction of English language tests, which were brought in for EU nurses for the first time in January 2016 - they were already in use for non-EU nurses.
It normally takes a few months from being tested to making it on to the register so officials believe this could have also played a role in the drop in numbers.
Click to expand...
Probably Kiwi. That and the fall in the £ meaning it's less lucrative coming here and a feeling, right or wrong, that they are not welcome. Why the **** English wasn't tested in the past for EU nurses is beyond me.
 
Brexit Negotiations Round 1:
EU Commission ahead on points as UK agrees to cover divorce bill and EU/British citizens rights upfront and alone, retreating from the 'trade talks in parallel' position.

Good, it will get things moving.

Re freedom of movement, read in the paper this morning that there are an estimated 150-250,000 illegal immigrants coming to the UK every year. Most are people who overstay their visas, but also failed asylum seekers and people who have been smuggled in, some using false documents. Possibly over 1m in the country in total.

Strikes me that this is a system failure rather than a policy failure.
 
sb_73 said:
Brexit Negotiations Round 1:
EU Commission ahead on points as UK agrees to cover divorce bill and EU/British citizens rights upfront and alone, retreating from the 'trade talks in parallel' position.

Good, it will get things moving.

Re freedom of movement, read in the paper this morning that there are an estimated 150-250,000 illegal immigrants coming to the UK every year. Most are people who overstay their visas, but also failed asylum seekers and people who have been smuggled in, some using false documents. Possibly over 1m in the country in total.

Strikes me that this is a system failure rather than a policy failure.
Click to expand...

This is what we need....

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sb_73 said:
Brexit Negotiations Round 1:
EU Commission ahead on points as UK agrees to cover divorce bill and EU/British citizens rights upfront and alone, retreating from the 'trade talks in parallel' position.

Good, it will get things moving.

Re freedom of movement, read in the paper this morning that there are an estimated 150-250,000 illegal immigrants coming to the UK every year. Most are people who overstay their visas, but also failed asylum seekers and people who have been smuggled in, some using false documents. Possibly over 1m in the country in total.

Strikes me that this is a system failure rather than a policy failure.
Click to expand...

Which paper?
 
Brexit dept confirms talks will start in Brussels on Monday, even though there's no government, no plan, no aims and no capacity to deliver.

Seems pro-Brexit people are in a potential lose-lose situation, go ahead now in an incredibly weak position or delay and likely never have it happen.

Interesting thread on Twitter here:
You must log in or register to see media

...and a fascinating article here: http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

I'm off out for a bit.
 
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seagullhoop said:
Which paper?
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The Times. Murdoch rag but good App for the iPad.

In today's edition a bit about how the government tried to recruit the bloke who headed up Canada's negotiations with both the EU and the US, but then wouldn't budge on the £160k pa maximum salary. OK it's a lot of money (unless you are a footballer as good as Jamie Mackie) but in the grand scheme of things, and for a two year job (perhaps) you pay whatever it takes to get the best.

That's an excellent article you posted the link to.
 
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sb_73 said:
The Times. Murdoch rag but good App for the iPad.

In today's edition a bit about how the government tried to recruit the bloke who headed up Canada's negotiations with both the EU and the US, but then wouldn't budge on the £160k pa maximum salary. OK it's a lot of money (unless you are a footballer as good as Jamie Mackie) but in the grand scheme of things, and for a two year job (perhaps) you pay whatever it takes to get the best.

That's an excellent article you posted the link to.
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Couldn't find anything about it in The Star!
 
seagullhoop said:
Brexit dept confirms talks will start in Brussels on Monday, even though there's no government, no plan, no aims and no capacity to deliver.

Seems pro-Brexit people are in a potential lose-lose situation, go ahead now in an incredibly weak position or delay and likely never have it happen.

Interesting thread on Twitter here:
You must log in or register to see media

...and a fascinating article here: http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2017/06/10/britain-the-end-of-a-fantasy/

I'm off out for a bit.
Click to expand...

Well now. As they say "Brexit means Brexit". We must respect the will of the people. After all we have a "strong and stable leadership" to see us through it and they will deliver the best possible outcome for us. However we are now going to have to manage our expectations for the 350 million a week for the NHS. Even though Theresa has now found the magic money tree growing in the garden at no.10, that money is spoken for putting right the Country's high rise blocks.

At the moment there seems precious little evidence to suggest that we have the upper hand because the EU negotiators believe that the EU needs us more than we need them.
 
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