The (Sir) Alwaysright Gordon Road Stand Thread

[WINDYROG]

gumpygit I have previously lived next to a neighbour who was profoundly deaf, and actually slept through their own alarm !
Also - people who have a burglar alarm are not necessarily in residence 24 / 7, 365 days of the year. I would think that burglars would prefer it if the occupant wasn't at home - and - with the 'cover' of darkness, I foolishly thought that there might have been a greater chance that the alarm was as a result of a crime (( pardon me if that's not suspicious enough for the Police )).
It was the attitude that I was expected to venture out to locate the premises and have a look to see if there was anything suspicious -- surely THAT is the job of the Police. The Police operator assumed that I was physically capable of that small, ( not at all potentially dangerous ) task - which obviously is beyond the remit of the local constabulary.

If the alarm keeps me awake tonight, I might just 'investigate' - with a large hammer - the bloody thing will STOP ringing ! If I get arrested at least I'll be able to have some quiet, uninterrupted sleep in a cell - it's not as if they'll be full of any criminals that haven't been caught!

We have Theresa May to thank for the reduction in police numbers by 20,000. There are now 90,000 in the UK...being simplistic, divide this by 4 which will give you the number on duty at any one time taking into account of a basic 4 shift system (earlier/lates/nights and rest days. 22,500 max at any one time for the whole UK......with a population of around 64 million. Yes in the UK policing is by consent.....but this is taking the mickey.

 

[alwaysright]

Windyrog - what do you suggest ? How about a cctv camera on every street lamp post. When a crime is committed we can then expect a letter in the post a week later - inviting us to the Police Station where we will be arrested ( obviously only if enough police officers are on duty to do the paperwork ), - or perhaps a demand to go straight to jail !..............

It used to be said that crime doesn't pay -but that is no longer true. The chances of getting caught is remote. The 'judicial process' of cautions, fixed penalty notices, and other minor 'punishments' involved before the Crown Prosecution Service considers that you need to go to court, is a farce and totally devoid of any justice for victims.

 

[WINDYROG]

I don't believe anymore cctv is the answer......at the last count there was one camera for every 14 of us nationally and each one of us will be 'viewed' over 350 times a day.

The rot started a long time ago when it was held that it was unreasonable for a member of the public to go to a police station and speak to a police officer. To get accurate advice became practically impossible and to speak to a police officer on the streets you'd have to be pretty quick as they were in vehicles....as the numbers had reduced and to cover the calls foot patrols were axed.

The CPS were a joke and I don't know if that has changed since I left in 2005 but they would only prosecute cases where there was a minimum chance of 100% success. Many times, in court, I have had to sit behind the prosecutor to 'feed' them the correct questions to ask......

These are desperate times and I am glad that I was able to do an honest job, connect with the people and go home at the end of the day believing that my presence was worthwhile (1973-2005). AND...I do have the utmost respect for those officers still out there trying to do their best when the rug is constantly being pulled from under their feet by politicians, accountants, apologists for whatever cause is in vogue today, and those who seek to gain 'capital' by knocking those at the front line having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. The officers that we/you interface with on a daily basis still have the public's interests at heart.....we have to look deeper into the murk of politics where once upon a time the police service was much less involved.

Every chief officer of police is now a political appointment along with the so called 'commissioners'. Direct entry into the police as senior officers without any prior police experience is now common place and only this week it has been announced that 'detectives' are being similarly sourced. Previously likely candidates were put forward (having completed a minimum probationary period of two years on the beat) and had to undergo a rigorous 10 week residential course with examinations every week followed by a further probationary period upon completion of this course. It is no wonder Theresa May reduced the UK police force by 20,000 during her time as Home Secretary.....the police service is expensive. However....pay peanuts and get....

Regarding 'victims'...there are in excess of 50 organisations available to criminals and ex criminals and all of them funded. For the 'victims' of crime there is one organisation and it is voluntary...the 'Victim Support Scheme' details of which are on the leaflets given out by the police and available in police stations.....a crime in itself.

The law is not an ass as the appropriate punishments are available (theft is an 'arrestable' offence as it carries the punishment of 5 years imprisonment but how often is this implemented?).....it is the application and management of the law (Home Office 'guidelines') that is the ass. The police merely implement it.

I make no apologies for this rather long winded post, but having been there and within the system and fully aware of what is going on, I felt it appropriate to comment and share my opinions.

 

[alwaysright]

Windyrog - sadly I can award you only one 'like.'

 

[grumpygit]

Blaming Theresa May is a little simplistic.
firstly, when do you take your measure from, 2010 recorded the highest number of police ever, use 2003 as a measure and the numbers are approximately the same.
"The Coalition government elected in May 2010 inherited from the previous Labour administration a huge budget deficit, variously described as "a record peacetime deficit" and "the largest budget deficit of any economy in Europe with the single exception of Ireland." Consequently, the new Government immediately embarked on a deficit reduction plan which included cutting the budgets of all government departments."
The above extract came from a police budget revue, so that suggests we could blame Gordon Brown for running up a huge deficit, of course the truth as always can depend on what facts you look at and how you interpret them.

It can also depend on where in the country you live.

 

[alwaysright]

grumpygit - you make a valid statement - but I'm not sure if it impresses each of us when we interpret our own personal circumstances into the economic 'health' of the country.
We have been encouraged to accept austerity - by politicians who, (by and large), will claim for the last sheet of toilet paper they have to use. The MPs are protected from the normal financial restraints that affect the vast majority of the electorate - yet it is us who are expected to pay for their profligacy. AND at the same time, the general public currently do not receive pay increases anywhere near the same as inflation - yet - when we receive our utility bills, the starting point of their increase is around a factor of 3 times the rate of inflation - how can that be fair ? ( especially as we're getting even less for the money ) ----- what did a politician say not long ago " We're all in it together." The it is only missing a couple of letters - sh

 

[grumpygit]

Always I wasn't trying to change minds, just pointing out things aren't as simple as they seem.
Another fallacy believed by many is the Labour guff about the NHS being safe in their hands, yet believing the Tories will destroy it. The biggest current threat to the health service, and the biggest financial drain on its resources is PFI, yes the same PFI that was the brain child of Gordon Brown and introduced by the last Labour government.
I lived in the 60's when Labour decided to clobber the rich and businesses, the rich moved abroad and the businesses either closed or followed the rich to foreign shores, we had the brain drain where doctors, scientists all fled our shores, unfortunately I was stuck here paying for it.

 

[WINDYROG]

All points of view are valid and have their place. My comments come from having been part of the police service for 32 yrs and the changes that the organisation has gone through.
My specialist field was traffic and crash investigation (after my first 8 yrs in Brighton). In the mid 80s there were 13 million vehicles on the road, now there are 39 million vehicles with an increased and an increased aged population. In 2003 the road traffic resources were reduced by more than 60% as the 'changes' started to take effect...for technology was to save the day. This being cameras and ANPR systems.....it has since been realised that technology needs to be backed up by a proactive enforcement system......Ah ha......they've all gone and the department has been de skilled....a little bit like the police service in general.
Yes it has been as a result of collective ineptitude but Theresa May's efforts stand head and shoulders above any of her predecessors as no one had ever reduced the numbers by 20,000 during their 'reign' as Home Secretary....or replaced the police officer with PCSOs which was cut price patrolling under the guise of being police officers...which they were not nor had they the associated and necessary powers.

When she says 'Enough is enough' this too is a valid statement....but one that should be turned inwards against her. To have a society that enjoys 85% freedom there is a downside that there has to be 15% restriction upon those who would see our way of life or personal achievements diminished. There is not that capability or belief from the public that this is currently achievable.

The election is on Thursday and I truly despair. I have voted Tory (for my sins....and it is still a free country) all of my life but on this occasion I feel in my heart that I cannot. God knows who I should vote for as the state of the parties is abysmal and the choice even worse.

I now live in SW France and enjoy a less stressful lifestyle (yes...still eligible to vote and care passionately for my country) and recently there was considerable concern that a certain Mme Le Penn might get into the driving seat in France however the voting system came to the rescue and the two horse race was won by the 'more popular' M Macron. However the UK political (horse) race seems to have all runners that are either lame or deserving of the 'knackers yard'. It really is a case of the least bad and who will be the best for the UK, its inhabitants, its systems (education and NHS to name but two) and the future of our children.

Hope springs eternal........

 

[alwaysright]

I would vote for you, Windyrog - but as you've got your money 'offshore' I don't know if you can be trusted (( therefore you'd make an excellent politician )).

 

[WINDYROG]

I would vote for you, Windyrog - but as you've got your money 'offshore' I don't know if you can be trusted (( therefore you'd make an excellent politician )).

Ha ha ha.......nice one! Just after an easier life with great roads (no potholes here) to hoon around on my motorcycle. Done my time as they say......but certain things remain oh so close to the heart. A bit like the 'Gills' really as I left Gillingham in 1974 but still came home for the 'home' games for as long as I could.....and sitting in my 'container' accommodation in Iraq (2011-2015) watching the 'Wall' updates religiously despite the time difference. Mmmmm I even won the prediction league whilst out there one season ;-)

Here's to the Gills and all the supporters for next season.

 

[grumpygit]

Gillingham North comes top out of the whole of Kent, unfortunately it is using police statistics for antisocial behaviour.

http://www.kentlive.news/the-worst-...een-revealed/story-30351406-detail/story.html

 

[alwaysright]

Whilst we're on the subject............
Apparently Kent Police have been rated as 'inadequate' ------- well, that's an improvement on what I thought about their nonrepsonse the other night.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40279325

 

[grumpygit]

Kent's Chief Constable Alan Pughsley said all crimes not recorded had been reviewed.
He said the force was working to increase its accuracy, with extensive training under way.

24,000 crimes not reported and he's talking about training, a cynical man might think they have targets for crime reduction.

 

[alwaysright]

BRAVE
All of us have seen the horrific film and images of the Grenfell Tower fire. I doubt if anyone has nothing but sadness in their heart for the tragic loss of life and devastation for friends and families of the victim.

I would just like to express my praise for all involved in the rescue attempts, and care of the survivors --- especially the London Fire Brigade. I hear stories of residents being rescued from 'upper' levels of the building - and I wonder at the sheer bravery of the fire fighters and their selfless regard for their own safety to enter a burning inferno to try to save ' a total stranger !'. I applaud your bravery.

 

[brb]

BRAVE
All of us have seen the horrific film and images of the Grenfell Tower fire. I doubt if anyone has nothing but sadness in their heart for the tragic loss of life and devastation for friends and families of the victim.

I would just like to express my praise for all involved in the rescue attempts, and care of the survivors --- especially the London Fire Brigade. I hear stories of residents being rescued from 'upper' levels of the building - and I wonder at the sheer bravery of the fire fighters and their selfless regard for their own safety to enter a burning inferno to try to save ' a total stranger !'. I applaud your bravery.

I'm at the anger stage with it, because we all know now there will be public inquiries and hung out court cases over probably the next decade.

I have a simpler solution, a more direct one, immediately stick people in prison on manslaughter charges and do the whole process in reverse!

Social cleansing again at its finest and if I even have to explain this then I will gasp for breath.

Landlords took the money, contractors took the work, regulators lessened the safety requirements, successive governments allowed it to happen...put someone in prison now and see what it shakes out.

 

[grumpygit]

I'm at the anger stage with it, because we all know now there will be public inquiries and hung out court cases over probably the next decade.

I have a simpler solution, a more direct one, immediately stick people in prison on manslaughter charges and do the whole process in reverse!

Social cleansing again at its finest and if I even have to explain this then I will gasp for breath.

Landlords took the money, contractors took the work, regulators lessened the safety requirements, successive governments allowed it to happen...put someone in prison now and see what it shakes out.

Firstly I would like to offer my sympathy to the victims and their families.

brb, whilst I understand your anger, I do think we need to wait for some information on how the fire started, and why it spread so fast.
I don't wish to undermine the recent tragedy, but in 2016 there were 1,810 deaths on UK roads, 25,160 serious injuries, 157,400 minor injuries, I've not seen any anger directed at cars, no clamber to ban all vehicles, no demands for all speeding drivers to be imprisoned, or drunk drivers, or drivers convicted of careless driving. Road deaths are largely excepted, indeed very few people could say they have never broken a speed limit, or had a lapse of concentration, the above figures don't even consider the death or illness from pollution, yet we except it as part of life. I agree that if the evidence proves someone has intentionally contributed toward this tragedy, they should be brought to task, acting without evidence would be very scary.

 

[brb]

Firstly I would like to offer my sympathy to the victims and their families.

brb, whilst I understand your anger, I do think we need to wait for some information on how the fire started, and why it spread so fast.
I don't wish to undermine the recent tragedy, but in 2016 there were 1,810 deaths on UK roads, 25,160 serious injuries, 157,400 minor injuries, I've not seen any anger directed at cars, no clamber to ban all vehicles, no demands for all speeding drivers to be imprisoned, or drunk drivers, or drivers convicted of careless driving. Road deaths are largely excepted, indeed very few people could say they have never broken a speed limit, or had a lapse of concentration, the above figures don't even consider the death or illness from pollution, yet we except it as part of life. I agree that if the evidence proves someone has intentionally contributed toward this tragedy, they should be brought to task, acting without evidence would be very scary.

I think you already know my thoughts on the above, I have quoted the same numerous times in the defence of smoking.

Likewise this will roll on in public debates while the wealthy protect one another. Why should someone not see immediately the inside of a prison cell exactly the same if it was you or I.

 

[grumpygit]

I think you already know my thoughts on the above, I have quoted the same numerous times in the defence of smoking.

Likewise this will roll on in public debates while the wealthy protect one another. Why should someone not see immediately the inside of a prison cell exactly the same if it was you or I.

If the facts show someone to be liable for the disaster, then they should be in a prison cell, to act without facts/evidence it would be a scary world, I would like to think if it was you or I then we would be given the same right.
I understand that over £14m has been spent on the refurbishment of this tower block, £10m on the cladding alone, rockwall cladding (very fire ******ant) would apparently have cost no more than the material used, so this wasn't about cost cutting.

 

[brb]

If the facts show someone to be liable for the disaster, then they should be in a prison cell, to act without facts/evidence it would be a scary world, I would like to think if it was you or I then we would be given the same right.
I understand that over £14m has been spent on the refurbishment of this tower block, £10m on the cladding alone, rockwall cladding (very fire ******ant) would apparently have cost no more than the material used, so this wasn't about cost cutting.

I think the difference im trying to highlight, is if that had been you or i, then our defence would be from the inside of a prison cell.

The corporate elite should be treated no differently, Chuck a few execs in for questioning which will be a damn sight quicker than yet another public inquiry.

For example how many decades did it take for supporters to be proved not guilty and the establishment guilty...here we go on that merry-go-round again.

They don't need us making excuses or defending them, they have plenty of wealth to defend their own sorry little arses.

We all saw how that building went up like a Whickerman, 10M yeah right, who's pockets did that go in, because it certainly was not spent on fire safety, but cosmetic's to please the upper crust of Kensington.

Let me demonstrate the difference, I'm about to light up my cig in a pub, what do you think will happen and I've harmed no one....beer bartender please.

 

[grumpygit]

We have Theresa May to thank for the reduction in police numbers by 20,000. There are now 90,000 in the UK...being simplistic, divide this by 4 which will give you the number on duty at any one time taking into account of a basic 4 shift system (earlier/lates/nights and rest days. 22,500 max at any one time for the whole UK......with a population of around 64 million. Yes in the UK policing is by consent.....but this is taking the mickey.

I didn't question your figures on this post, because frankly I had no idea what the numbers were, however, having now looked them up I offer the following.
Figures are for England and Wales only, Scotland for some reason are kept separately.

Police workforce, as at 31 March 2016, England and Wales (I haven't found anything more recent yet)
...................................................Rank All staff (FTE) ........... Staff available for duty (FTE)
Chief officers1.....................................196 ........................................194
Chief superintendents.........................321.........................................318
Superintendents..................................801.........................................794
Chief inspectors..................................1,581......................................1,549
Inspectors...........................................5,692.......................................5,567
Sergeants...........................................18,839....................................18,277
Constables.........................................96,637.....................................92,080
Total police officer ranks....................124,066..................................118,779
Police staff..........................................61,668....................................58,807
Police community support officers.....11,043................................... 10,470
Designated officers............................4,130....................................... 4,002
Traffic wardens..................................15.............................................15
Total police workforce........................200,922....................................192,072
Special constabulary2.......................15,996 -