Getting desperate now Imps?
Off Topic Politics Thread
- Thread starter ChilcoSaint
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To be perfectly honest, if it was the Lib Dems or the Greens that the best chance of beating the Tories I would vote for either of them. I want to see an end to the damaging austerity that is decimating our public services and I want to see a bit of levelling up in our society. I want to see less homeless people on the streets, the disabled treated with more respect and dignity, a better NHS with our nurses getting paid what they are worth, no more food banks and zero hour contracts and a real living minimum wage.
Sorry, are you calling him gullible and mad or unchangeable and cunning, I can't work it out from your incoherent foamy mouthed ramblings.
I am calling you guys gullible for believing the words he comes out with r.e. police, tackling terrorism and the EU.
However I see the same on most platforms. There is not a lot of hope for those that are so willing to think the best that they will ignore very recent history and very real voting patterns by people who this month are saying the opposite to what their voting pattern shows.
Your loss there.
I suppose if the unthinkable happens I should plan what to spend all this extra money on seeing as I have 2 kids diagnosed with ASD and am "officially" in poverty. I must be in for a windfall. Should I get the Bollinger in ready to celebrate this windfall?
you called Corbyn naive just a couple of posts ago.
Btw politicians generally keep to the rhetoric that gets them in power and it keeps them in power, just like Trump as you compared Corbyn to him. Half his rhetoric he didnt believe in before he started going for presidency but he has at least given a token effort to achieve it since, I think its naive to think otherwise.
A popular definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Give me an example where our current counter terrorism policy has actually worked? The only terrorism that comes to mind that has ended recently seems to have ended through diplomacy, so i'm finding it hard to see Corbyn as the one who is mad or naive here.
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You are ignoring all the plots that have been foiled and judging this on those that have "succeeded." We have no control over lone wolf attacks and the courts ruled control orders illegal (supported by Corbyn and most of the left) Corbyn's words on this at the moment contradict the very things he has stood for and fought against not just 30 years ago but right up to last week in some instances.
The counter terror measures are about as good as they can be at the moment when any attempt to deal with extremists are fought against by people going on about human rights thus we have the open jihadi that parades in parks with his black flag and we can;t touch him until he actually commits a crime. In this case we couldn't touch him because he was killed.
The blood is on the hands of all those that put human rights ahead of human safety and fight the cause of people that would do harm to us because they haven't "physically" committed a crime.
Anjem Choudhary will be up for early release next year!! He was convicted on a nonsensical notion of "encouragin people to join a banned organisation." He should have been easy to put away for hate speech but that is another that only applies to right wing people. HE should be locked up indefinitely because of what he believes being a danger to people but he will be free to wander about the mosques again after his release and we will not be able to do anything about it.
So if you want to criticise people for our terrorism strategy being so watered down then criticise those that fought against that terror legislation which has left it as weak as it is.
Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott ALL opposed armed police and terror legislation right up to the present yet here they are now criticising the government for weak security and less armed police!!!
Do you seriously believe that getting people waving IS flags around thrown to the floor and arrested in the street is actually going to reduce the number of muslims with enmity against us in the UK!?!?! people being open about it makes it much easier to determine who are actually going to carry out real threats. I bet a lot of these foiled attack were foiled because precisely because they had links to people like Choudhary.
Removing humans rights of people who disagree with the government is in no way going to to improve the safety of the British public, it will just marginalise Muslims and drive them underground and straight into the arms of IS while opening the door for removal of human rights for other groups too.
why do you think IS are attacking right before our election? this is exactly the type of attitude they are trying to create in the British public. i bet they have having a good laugh at people like you right now playing right into their hands.
So you are happy that Khuram Butt who openly stated his beliefs was not watched because he had not done anything criminal?
Are those preachers on camera supporting ISIS and encouraging terrorist actions, touring mosques and Uni campuses not worthy of being under a control order? Why are we not dealing with the problem at source rather than this reactive measure of things like Prevent where we try and de-radicalise people after they have been radicalised?
Why are these hate preachers allowed to tour the country saying these things? Are they not as bad or worse even than Tommy Robinson who is constantly being pulled up in front of the courts for what he says or does?
This isn't about disagreeing with the government. He wasn't disagreeing with the British government. HE was openly stating a hatred of British people and it should easily have been covered within the hate speech laws. If it had been a British person stating the reverse then they would have been prosecuted.
Why will tackling extremist muslims drive muslims underground? Do the muslim community not want the extremist element dealt with?
You are doing the usual current blur of the problems of society, this being one of many!
There is most definitely a problem WITHIN the muslim community. There should be no problem with that being stated by muslim or non muslim. It is not saying that there is a problem WITH the muslim community.
Anyone that goes around stating hatred for Britain, British people should be dealt with in the same way that any other person stating a hatred of Islam or muslims should be dealt with. It is hate speech both ways and this tip toe tactic of being scared of being seen as racist or bigoted needs to stop.
Muslims themselves I am sure want extremist muslims dealt with. If groups are marching the streets preaching hatred towards the UK and Britons then they should be dealt with the same way as you want racists and bigots dealt with.
They weren't going around slapping control orders on people who were not a risk. That is the "human rights argument." And when you have brazen groups and figures openly congratulating or supporting extremist actions then they should be dealt with. IT should have not taken "encouraging people to join a banned organisation" to lock up Choudhary when he was on camera a multitude of times before Lee Rigby and after cheerily stating that each terrorist attack was justifiable.
And we shouldn't even be thinking about let alone putting into practice a situation where Sharia Courts are allowed to run alongside UK law.
I can see your point Imps but you are wrong to condemn people putting human rights above security. That is completely buying into what the terrorists want. As I said the other day, ultimately all conflicts are settled, if it's impossible to end them by military means, by talking. That's what Corbyn has consistently advocated all his political life, whether it be with Sinn Fein, Hesbollah, or ISIS.
The police themselves have said that the cuts in their numbers have led to a lack of day-to-day intelligence gathering by PC's and PCSO's among Muslim communities, regarding radicalisation of young men in particular.
I believe Trident is a nonsense. What Corbyn thinks is up to him? I also think Brexit is a total nonsense and we will see the farce unfold this summer when the UK delegation has no one to negotiate with over the long hot Mediterranean summer. And then all it takes is one member state to disagree and whole procedure collapses.
No. I am not putting security above human rights. It is a human right to feel safe.
I am not advocating locking up anybody who "sympathises" with ISIS or any terrorist activity. I am saying that human rights should not be held up to stop people that openly promote ideas and encourage others to take part in terrorist activities.
The vast majority of even those that sympathise are never going to be a threat at all however the first named of the London Bridge attack openly stated his ideals, promoted those ideals, was brazen about his support and encouraged others to jihad. He is not your average "sympathiser" and nor is Anjem Choudhary who was only locked up on some bogus weak charge anyway.
I am suggesting that people like the Labour front team that are now criticising weak Tory policies when they were forced to be so weak because of opposition to tougher policies on the basis of human rights are disingenous.
We are left talking about cuts which can only ever affect reactive policy when they have opposed EVERY pro-active policy designed to stop these things happening. They are guilty of hindering any pro-active measures yet are now grandstanding about how it is the Tory policies fault for what is happening.
And I suppose the Conservatives aren't? You talk about Labour being full of mad peope. What about Bill Cash? I remember that guy was on the verge on insanity when denouncing the UK's membership of the EU. And that was in a Parliamentary. I do not think we need to discuss Boris Johnson, except to say he will be out of politiics within 12 months. If the Tories get back in and he is given the job of Foreign Secretary, it would show poor judgement on her part, much like Corbyn and Abbott as you sometimes highlight.
If he hadn't been open about it Butt would have never had been investigated in the first place and no measure would have been taken against him anyway.
the police never saw the stuff he did in private to plan for the attack so why do you think they would have the evidence to do something about it in your version?
The root cause of extremism is not preachers out in public. i doubt they even have any effect compared to whats shown on TV. The root cause is a lack of integration and seeing themselves as part of the British public. As shown with Brexit, if you start sowing that a culture of targeting a specific group is okay, hate crimes against that group will increase, the divide will increase and you will get more and more extreme views amongst muslims to counter the extreme views of the rest of the public. Sympathisers will no longer just be sympathisers.
What you are suggesting IS a reactive measure, and one that will negatively affect the root cause of home grown terrorism.
Theresa didn't look in great shape, on the news.
Very lack lustre speaking. Just going through the motions now.
Just hope the electorate shows her the door.
Very lack lustre speaking. Just going through the motions now.
Just hope the electorate shows her the door.