1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. West Kent Saint

    West Kent Saint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    3,454
    Quite possibly a lot of assumptions there. Are all politicians categorically led by their self serving ego? You might be right, its what turns me off politics in general I think, but then I'm probably an idealist. What is ever the truth. Problem is the short term-ism of it all. Its about getting in, is there ever a long game played? Maybe greens can only stick to what they believe in knowing that they will not get voted in.

    There are too many restraining factors to running an honest campaign including the media circus and big corporate society, but others will know a lot more than me.
     
    #7761
    ImpSaint likes this.
  2. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    25,177
    Likes Received:
    16,244
    Diane Abbott. <doh>
     
    #7762
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  3. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    56,793
    Likes Received:
    63,651
    Whoever wins this election is going to be so horrendously handicapped by the self inflicted disaster that is Brexit that it will take a huge effort of will to think of anything else for even one hour a day. Every waking moment will be consumed by the need to renegotiate an unprecedented volume of soon to be defunct legislative clauses effecting every boat, plane and lorry entering and leaving the UK. It's a goat-**** that will destroy whoever forms the next government.

    Part of me thinks the Tories caused this disaster, let them stay and sort it out. But then I think of everything the hapless May has done to antagonise our European partners. At least with Corbyn approaching negotiations in a spirit of co-operation and reconciliation, we have a chance of constructive dialogue rather than a Saloon bar poker game with the UK Govt playing the unconvincing role of the doomed Doc Holliday.
     
    #7763
    Osvaldorama and San Tejón like this.
  4. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    39,331
    Likes Received:
    39,279
    I don't think Diane Abbott will make a blind bit of difference to Labour's campaign. Theresa May has made this a presidential election between herself and Corbyn, so the Tories can't start picking on Jeremy's colleagues. Of course the media will be all over it, but the thousands that are turning out every time Corbyn appears won't care.
     
    #7764
  5. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    Documentary ages ago where crime figures were explained. I'm sure I could google you something but that would just be self comfirmation bias.

    In my job we get requests from police all the time to add additional locks or stronger doors to residents homes because they know there are dangerous people after them but can't do anything about it.

    Most are just issues with the system but some of these cases I have no doubt could have been prevented if the police had more resourced. And again I have first hand experience from my job at the number of people who refuse to go to the police after they let them down.
     
    #7765
    ImpSaint likes this.
  6. Puck

    Puck Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,611
    Likes Received:
    2,524
    I don't know whether Corbyn himself will still be Labour leader in 2022. He loves a campaign but I've never felt he really likes the day to day stuff about being leader. He'll also be 73 by the next election. I've suspected for a while (though it's not much more than a gut feeling) that his aim here is to get enough support to stay in post, try and change the Labour leadership election rules and then stand aside in favour of someone else, possibly McDonnell. Seems like he won't have too much difficulty doing that.
     
    #7766

  7. VVD

    VVD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5,532
    Likes Received:
    2,326
    Nope, but I'm still yet to decide who to vote, and Abbott is frankly, a dire politician who worries me every time she speaks. In terms of 1v1, Corbyn has performed considerably better than May the past few weeks.
     
    #7767
    ImpSaint likes this.
  8. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,243
    Likes Received:
    2,081
    The reality is that the whole globalisation and "liberal" ideal that globalists and the EU sell to the people is a sham cover for the uber-capitalism that hides behind the facade.

    Corbyn will as you say go in with a spirit of co-operation and reconciliation but they will play him far too easily because he will fall for their facade of "it's all about people and humanitarianism" because that is what he is all about. Call it naivety or innocence. Something to be admired but they won't be budging from their mantra of "It's all about the people" and then they will scurry off for a free banquet and fine wines while collecting their CEO sized salary and chuckling with business about how the people are lapping up all their sales pitch.

    May will go in on a purely business line. That is what the EU is all about so that route is the one that will do best out of it. If the EU was actually about what they sell it as then Corbyn would do well. But it isn't and they will talk behind his back to his centrist bulk of the Labour party and put pressure on him that way.

    In terms of human rights the Tories won;t be taking anything away. We implemented most of the key parts ourselves and were the lead behind making a lot of the rest anyway. We are also one of the only ones in the EU that enforce a lot of these rules.
     
    #7768
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
    Beddy likes this.
  9. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,243
    Likes Received:
    2,081
    Would it not be countered by the fact that police recording methods have improved and much more gets recorded? I accept your argument that people are less likely to record crime because they think it is a waste of time however there are also lots of counter reports that recording methods and police practices have accounted for a rise in reporting of certain crimes.

    There is also the factor of things that previously weren't a crime now being a crime (or perceived crime) that get recorded and despite this we still have the drop.

    There was one report last year talking about a rise of 128 (circa 20%) in recorded homicides in the UK. What that didn;t take into account was that 96 of that 128 was the Hillsborough verdict being changed to manslaughter.

    What I am suggesting is that for every unreported crime there might be one more reported crime due to new laws or better recording or even in some cases better policing methods?
     
    #7769
  10. VVD

    VVD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    5,532
    Likes Received:
    2,326
  11. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    56,793
    Likes Received:
    63,651
    A dilemma for Corbyn - persuade Abbott to fall on her sword now, and in so doing thrust her even further into the spotlight? Or wait til after the election before shunting her somewhere where she can't do any harm - & where she can use her undoubted talents (I don't know what they are, but she must have some)?
     
    #7771
  12. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    39,331
    Likes Received:
    39,279
    If Labour win on Thursday there is no way Abbott will be Home Secretary, or any other senior Cabinet role. Corbyn has already alluded to this when he said, in reply to a question about Abbott, "let's win the election, then I'll pick my cabinet."
     
    #7772
  13. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    25,177
    Likes Received:
    16,244

     
    #7773
    San Tejón likes this.
  14. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    56,793
    Likes Received:
    63,651
    I have absolutely no idea what that first paragraph means Imps. You've completely lost me there.

    I disagree though with your assertion that Corbyn will get a worse a deal than May because she is more business like. What business has she ever run?

    Corbyn has been an outsider and a champion of the underdog all his life. He has shown tenacity, resilience and an unwavering commitment to his beliefs throughout a long career on the margins of political life. I think that in so doing he has exhibited exactly the personal qualities needed to protect the best interests of his country in trying circumstances - he is, after all, well used to trying circumstances.

    May will buckle at the first sign of pressure. Paxman was right, she is a blowhard who will crumble at the first faint sound of gunfire. She always has before.
     
    #7774
  15. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    39,331
    Likes Received:
    39,279
    Fair play to the Green candidate in the Wells constituency, this has just come through our door:
    IMG_0068.JPG
     
    #7775
    Saints_Alive and Archers Road like this.
  16. Beef

    Beef Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    35,745
    Likes Received:
    9,708
  17. ImpSaint

    ImpSaint Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    8,243
    Likes Received:
    2,081
    I mean the EU is sold as for the people when the reality is it is all about $$$ for big business and the circles that facilitate the rules to suit them.

    May like most politicians including within the EU is all about $$$. Everything equates to money and she will base her negotiations purely on financial accounts. Corbyn is much more about the people rather than the $$$ and the EU will love telling him all the lovely people things that the EU always talks about while they negotiate whatever they want that suits the $$$ but is sold as "for the people."

    I agree although you have to admit he is conceding quite a few things to his party and to try and get the youth vote. He has already backed the EU when he is a eurosceptic and he has given way to his party on Trident. 2 things there that he used to be very very vocal about.

    I think this will be different. After the election and not getting a landslide she is not going to be allowed to dictate things and the party will be putting lots of pressure on her to delegate and discuss with them rather than tell them what is going to happen.
     
    #7777
  18. VocalMinority

    VocalMinority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    4,109
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    Come on Imps, Corbyn has been fighting people like that all his career, its precisely what he does and he's anything but naive to it.
     
    #7778
    ChilcoSaint and Archers Road like this.
  19. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    56,793
    Likes Received:
    63,651
    Exactly. It's a huge mistake to underestimate a man who has been swimming against the tide his whole life.
     
    #7779
  20. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    39,331
    Likes Received:
    39,279
    Plus Labour's Brexit Secretary will be Keir Starmer, who is a QC with a great track record of difficult cases behind him.
     
    #7780

Share This Page