Riots

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Because they come to the country with no money. At which point they're either dragged into crime or end up working a minimum wage job, not earning enough to move away.

Then their kids grow up and either get dragged into crime or end up working a minimum wage job because the schools in those areas are beyond terrible.

If you grow up in a terrible area, chances are you will never amount to anything. The ones that do are the exceptions.
 
Nick there are far too many reasons to go into now as I only have 5mins, if you truly want a answer to that question I suggest you look at some historical and sociological reading and I will happily provide a (slightly) more detailed answer later although I doubt that will satisfy you.

WSW the ICPP are (and rightly so) not call a man guilty before he is proven so by a jury but essentially they believed there was plenty of evidence against these people. While I don't want to get into a debate as subjective as who has more belief in the system I struggle to understand how you can believe that all these individuals are innocent while also believing you are a bigger sceptic than me a person that highly doubts this. (I do realise arguing this almost weakens my position but it just seems absurd).

In regards to your paraphrasing I agree that much of the violence now is mindless, as I have already said, but there are underlying causes and tensions that sparked this and to ignore that appears ignorant to me. By the sounds of that interview I wouldn't completely agree with the interviewers agenda or the professors argument.
 
Ryan-R-An-Addick said:
Because they come to the country with no money. At which point they're either dragged into crime or end up working a minimum wage job, not earning enough to move away.

Then their kids grow up and either get dragged into crime or end up working a minimum wage job because the schools in those areas are beyond terrible.

If you grow up in a terrible area, chances are you will never amount to anything. The ones that do are the exceptions.
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I (and this won't surprise some of you on here, in terms of the views I present) am a deputy headteacher in an inner city London borough. I have taught in these areas for the last 15 years. There are some ineffective schools in these areas, granted. However, the majority of schools in London add much more value to a child's education than suburban or rural schools. This is a lot to do with extra funding we received under Labour which enabled us to work closely with the community, parents, businesses, youth organisations etc. This money has now been removed. However, we will continue to plough our resources into it as it makes a difference. But, once a child reaches 12 or 13, the damage is done. It is hard to change someone who has such a negative attitude to authority and their community at this age. It needs to be happening at 7, 8 years old to have an impact in later life. This is why it is important to look at the reasons as they are there staring out at us.
These riots and the looting involved young people of all ethnicities. However, amongst those arrested were university graduates, army applicants, graphic designers...but it's easy for certain sections of the media to blame a certain demographic (the working class) who have been demonised by recent Governments of both parties.
And do you know where the real problem lies? Parents. Parents who are kids themselves, or were not brought up themselves with a sense of value and right and wrong. I am angered on a daily basis when I get a phonecall saying 'my kids' (ie those that attend the school I work at) have misbehaved in the local area or on public transport. It seems it is schools' responsibility to deal with children's behaviour from when they wake to when they fall asleep.
This is why it is not good enough to just say there's no reason for it or it's just kids having no respect anymore. There are root causes and these need to be recognised and addressed.
Anyway, I can't contribute anymore to this discussion as minds are not going to be changed. Plus I'm off to France tomorrow with my wife and kids. Stay safe all.
 
Rob I do think you raise some good points there.

As a (well brought up) 19 year old myself I think of the reasons why I didn't go out rioting the past two nights

One of the reasons is that I feel too guilty to damage somebody else's property. Another is the potential for it to ruin my future prospects.

But the number one reason is that I wouldn't want to face the wrath of my parents.
 
The one constant in everyone's views here appears to be the total condemnation of these actions and these thugs, whatever the reasons. And that's a good thing in my book. Totally agree with the viewpoints that the parents are heavily responsible, but they frequently grew up in similar surroundings which suggests this deep-rooted problem in our society that there is no respect, no discipline, and no fear of recrimination in key parts of the community, whether the black community, the socially deprived areas, or simply those parts who just don't see any reason not to carry out this looting.
Hit & Run, Arson... two of the worst, most pointless crimes that can ever be committed. Serious action is needed, respect needs to be brought back to the community. National Service, heavier sentences, quicker justice, stronger policing... pick one or more and make them happen.
 
the kids have got it too easy,respect costs nothing and you should learn that wherever you come from.no cane at school for doing something wrong like we got when we were younger.if we had done what these youths did we would have got a good hiding off the old bill but that was nothing to what you would have got when you got home.hence you learnt respect of your elders and their property and didnt step out of line.the trouble is nowadays the dad who should be the father figure to look up to is never around or dont exist as so many are one parent families.i am not slating all one parent families but the facts are there for all to see.
 
i've only really just had a chance to skim through all this so apologies if certain points have been covered already but for me it makes no difference if these rioters are from socially deprived areas, lets face it areas like Woolwich, Plumstead, Erith, Belvedere, Abbey Wood etc are hardly much better but I know plenty of people from these areas whom have worked hard and have a decent job because they worked hard for it and yes this does include ethnic minorities as well. We have a high number of them at work but most of them actually work hard...

The ones rioting are the same ones who refuse to sweep the streets or collect the rubbish bins etc as other posters have said and instead opt for the more what appears more glamourous gangster lifestyle, instead as another poster did say, the Polish come over and do those jobs instead.

People can make something of there lives even from deprived areas if they work hard enough, the trouble is many of them won't make the effort
 
Couldnt agree more CAFCNick - If I'd come home from rioting when I was younger I'd be terrified that my parents would find out (my ar*se would have been so red I wouldnt have sat down for years)
 
Look at the Polish! (someone on here already did). No job prospects so go somewhere where they are. I dunno how the EC would react to Britain exporting it's neanderthals, but the image they create is a wretched one. I have to say a bit of the anarchist in me always likes to see people protesting, but it's been clear for a long time that this mob are just a bunch of chancers out to nick what they can under a guise of rebellion.

Nice to see Charlton got a nod as a community care club on Sky news yesterday.
 
CAFC Room101 said:
SVC, no officer has been convicted, some have been brought to court (the data I have got is from December 2010 so if one has been convicted since then, then I apologise). In essence it say's as much about our juries as the ICPP. I wasn't attempting to suggest that the police are terrible just that the officer in question is in a relatively secure position regardless of what actually happened.

AH I think while that is true we all know the police aren't perfect and restraint is often used when unnecessary. But as said I wasn't trying to suggest the police were particularly brutal with those figures, I myself have a far higher opinion of your average officer than many of my peers, just that the officer is relatively safe.
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My apologies for the delay in replying to this 101 but life elsewhere goes on so haven't been posting for a few hours (no I haven't been looting still in the south of france where the police would take a very unpleasant view of such activities)

I was going to respond with the old adage that you cant rely on statistics which was what my point about the vast numbers of crimes of violence was really addressing. but I see that in some of your subsequent posts you have noted that 4 of the deaths reported were probably as a result of excessive restraint being used. However, I would like to go onto a wider tack and state my view that I discovered long ago that utopia does not exist and there is no such thing a s a perfect world where a harassed and threatened police officer does not over react and apply to much force. There are also occasions when an over exited teenager is dragged along with his fellows into looting or doing some other such anti social behaviour which might end up with them being in court for an offience that their parents would find quite out of character.

The point is that the world is a far from perfect place populated by people who have weaknesses. However when those weaknesses of a few are overshadowed by the failure of the many is a time when we need to act in the short term to restore the equilibrium of the society. Reaction. In a much earlier post I suggested that the old riot act had its merits. These were that it allowed a short period for the equilibrium to be restored and then ceased to have effect. My concern with the current approach is that we are going to legislate for the longer term to permit things to happen in our society that we will look back to regret. The riot act was a surgical instrument in comparison to some of the demands that are now being made and history shows that it was used sparingly. The equivalent of a normally benign parent losing their temper.

If you look at society as a balancing act between aspiration to achieve great things and primal lust and greed then every so often the balance needs to be adjusted. This week we are seeing one of those occasions. On a small localised scale they are more frequent than we care to admit but on a national scale like the current riots riots they can attract the public consciousness and we need to be careful of over reaction. In the same way that we do not want to over react to the occasional death by over enthusiastic policing..

By the way having checked your sources and my own I will concede that your facts are correct, i was looking at prosecutions for other than death in custody of which there have been a few.
 
This may sound a bit simple, but I cannot help but think that this country is just too overpopulated. The strain on public services, housing, policing and the economy is always going to cause civil unrest.
When a country is so overloaded, the doors have to close to new migrants. Not because they are all bad or because of any racial reasons, but because we need to settle down, make order, make room for everyone to live and then revisit the reasons for mass immigration in the first place.
The unemployed need to be forced to work as dustmen, factory workers or cleaners, or have their benefits cut. It is no good plugging a hole and ignoring the resources we already have with which to plug such a gap. I understand that there will be issues with forcing folk to do what they don't want to do, but life is tough and tough measures need to be implemented.
I know I have gone over the same ground, but community leaders, especially in the black areas, need to rethink their strategies. At the moment, they base their preachings on the militant approach and actually cause anger and hatred for society. Some of these leaders are trying to live out their ideals in the youth, and create the 'them and us' situation. A good amount of young blacks go to school and learn respect from the natural order, but too many listen to the anti-state dogma that cretins such as Darcus Howe promote and preach. They are dangerous beings and must be condemned from outside and inside their communities.

But I am going to shut up about it now. I am in Nottingham already and looking forward to the game on Saturday.
 
cafcnick said:
I cannot believe it! I just saw this article on the internet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-grammar-school-girl-is-accused-of-theft.html

I sat next to Laura in geography for 2 years during my A2 exams!!! She is lovely, so strange to know she was looting?!

I am speechless
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Is this a case of the 'haves' pretending to be a 'have not' without actually not having. At the end of the day they can go back to their comfortable lifestyle and think it's all a jolly weeze.

Makes me puke as much as the real rioters do.

I'm sure CAFCRoom101 will have a better explanation (and no, 101, I'm not being facetious).
 
cafcnick said:
I cannot believe it! I just saw this article on the internet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-grammar-school-girl-is-accused-of-theft.html

I sat next to Laura in geography for 2 years during my A2 exams!!! She is lovely, so strange to know she was looting?!

I am speechless
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It must seem strange but The Milgram Experiment, 1961,(You can google it) showed how easy it is for a majority of normal humane people to act in a cruel destructive way given the right cicumstances.
 
Now I'm not trying to start an argument here! <laugh>

But why was the named in that report being granted bail?

When it is apparent from news reports that people who are entering pleas of 'not guilty' are sent to remand?
 
brb said:
Now I'm not trying to start an argument here! <laugh>

But why was the named in that report being granted bail?

When it is apparent from news reports that people who are entering pleas of 'not guilty' are sent to remand?
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I'm sure you know the answer to that question!

Perhaps that will just inflame the sense of injustice.
 
cafcnick said:
I cannot believe it! I just saw this article on the internet

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-grammar-school-girl-is-accused-of-theft.html

I sat next to Laura in geography for 2 years during my A2 exams!!! She is lovely, so strange to know she was looting?!

I am speechless
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One of my classmates at school, very bright, father an oil company director, big detached in Orpington, did three years for forty plus counts of housebreaking.

One of my friends, father a police commander, mother a magistrate, hooked her way through University.

You simply never can tell.
 
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