Off Topic Political Debate

Yes, I went by the permanence of the label. Although labels potentially could be applied with permanence to a particular contributor on here... But how he chooses to spend his time when he's alone in his house is none of my business...

 

Wasn't that the M.O. of the Twee Brextiteers?

 

Playground stuff again....................??

 

It calls me a lefty!! I tend to have leftist ideas and ideals but have in reality succumbed to right of centre reality.

 

Aha....

I am not surprised Aberdeen

Maybe ideals and practical reality diverge when ideals not seen as achievable and pragmatism is needed?

 

I think it's a bit of a leap in three questions as I consider myself centre left but I prefer to be called a lefty (as the algorithm from my answers suggest) than a tory for sure. Realist, most certainly.

 

Len Mccluskey, The Labour Party's paymaster General has put comrade Corbyn on notice that if his poll ratings do not improve by 2019 he will have to fall on his sword. McCluskey described the party's standing on the polls as "awful". He also said Labour had to show ordinary people it was listening to their concerns on immigration, saying it had to get its narrative right on free movement.

He is basically telling Corbyn not to listen to Diane Abbot on immigration and not to oppose evoking article 50.

No amount of 'party members' will save him, unfortunately, he is the Tories best asset.

 

A Thank You message re rail privatisation - enough to make you weep...

 

Just what can the ordinary members of the public take as truth from the politicians? Mme le Pen has been giving interviews to some of the news channels here, and has turned 180 degrees on the subject of a referendum for the French. In June and July last year just after the one held in the UK she jumped on the bandwagon and said she would have one here. In fact only last week I had some publicity from her saying that she could promise one. The polls all show that since the middle of last year the population have moved sharply away from going down the same road, so surprise, surprise, she says she will not have one. She wants to stay in the EU and Euro, but would want to see more talks within on immigration policy. She was less forthcoming about the latest court case where she is being sued to return a €9M loan from Russia to help pay for her last election attempt. It would not be too much effort to find similar politicians in Westminster who stood on a platform before the last election, but changed tack when they thought their seat could be at risk. Thinking around just who can you trust to have your interests at heart?

 

And we invade other countries who don't have our idea of 'democracy'.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...fits-prosecco-feckless-poor-phillip-schofield

An interesting article, nothing groundbreaking, but a good analysis of the vilification of those on benefits.

 

Fits in well with the view of modern servitude.... The protestant ethic sealed it in the Victorian Era of industrialisation......

I remember to this day when I came back from working overseas and signed on for about 8 weeks... .after 4 weeks they started to push me for any job.... and could not believe that i was aiming somewhere else..... the whole process was mindnumbing and completely unhelpful.

 

I was very right wing when i was younger having seen my mum work hard to raise all my brothers and sisters and not really seeing the benefits of her labour myself whereas you would see families getting what they want.

I've softened as i've got older and do believe in a welfare state. Whilst i'm not against someone occasionally enjoying themselves i don't believe it should be up to the welfare state to be paying enough for people to go on a jolly or have a comfortable lifestyle.

In an ideal world everyone would have everything and everyone would hopefully be happy. I'm a pragmatist and i don't ever see such a world as humans are too greedy and anytime anyone has ever tried to implement a socialist state its never really worked (in my opinion). I guess my upbringing where i was taught you will get what you deserve as long as you work hard mantra also goes against my view that lazy people if given a choice with working and enjoying your life and not working and enjoying your life will always opt for the latter (i am currently working earning a lot but miserable in life. Unfortunately i have partner and family commitments else i would have probably taken a good few years out to do **** all but enjoy myself).

The above attitude means practically, if 50% choose not to work and 50% choose to work (i know i have family who will work even though they don't have to just because they like to keep themselves busy) means that without full automation, our current stadards of living would not work.

Maybe i've been lucky to be in a situation whereby i've never been in a position whereby i was so poor that i have to rely on the dole and/or been worked to the bone by my slave driving employers but people can enjoy life without having to spend money in my opinion and living within your means is more of my mantra.

Saying that, i'm slightly anti establishmentarian. I don't really trust any of our politicians and i think most if not all are out taking the piss and these big corporations are a bad thing with their shareholders and the mantra of earning money. Nowadays, its all about profit and being "efficient" which usually means that you pay people rubbish and when the profit isn't there you fire a load of staff and make people who you havent fired work harder.

 

It is an interesting one about working/not working... I took early retirement a few years back and am now choosing to work part-time... .and I really enjoy the work with the lack of pressure.

I struggle with conspiracy theories.... but the 'world order' we are part of requires workers to be indebted to the banks, work long hours for the same basic needs as in the Victorian era.... except now we are hooked to screens etc etc. Interestingly when i was in Norway last year , which is oil rich, it was really refreshing to be in a culture where quality of life is considered more important than work.. and yet other Scandinavians consider Norwegians as 'lazy'.

 

There but for the lack of Tory grace goes Scotland...

 

I'm also not sure about conspiracy theories. It revolves around the idea that systems, which were created by individuals, develop their own invisible dynamic which reduces individual choice. Capitalism then becomes a self perpetuating system which has certain 'demands'. The idea that it must 'grow' (or it goes into decline) which is, in turn, based on increasing consumerism. To do this it has to be able to convince people that they need things, which, in fact, they don't need. This involves creating stupidity - and any analysis of the quality of mass media/TV. etc. over the last 40 years will bear this out. The average IQ in the Western World has actually sunk 2 points since 1950. So, is there a systematic plan out there, somewhere, to make everyone more stupid ?

 

I know that few of you will remember a man called John Bloom, but in the 1950's he started to produce and sell washing machines that sold at half the price of existing models, making them affordable for the average household. Part of the pitch was that it would take away the drudgery for the housewife of the weekly wash. Back in those days every day had it's allotted task, with Monday being the most popular for wash day. What actually happened over time was an increase in the days when washing was done, it was not a one off day kept for that purpose, so the housewife actually spent as much time doing the laundry as she had before. Then of course a bit later along came other household appliances such as microwave ovens, all designed to save time and effort. Many of these desirable goods could be bought on hire purchase, meaning that the housewife needed more than ever to go out to work to pay for them. So today hire purchase has largely been replaced with the credit card, and the housewife has the job of keeping the family income rolling in, paying taxes to keep an ailing economy afloat, and still it is not enough to provide decent services. Eventually John Bloom's business went bust in a spectacular way, and the bits worth buying finished up in the hands of Ariston, an Italian company.

 

I do enjoy posts like this. At its best our forum can educate, inform, and guide, all in a friendly manner. We've all had different experiences in life and I do like my life to be enriched through gaining a little access to others'.

 

Few conspiracy theories prove to contain much truth, perhaps because the ideas they contain are not described as such unless they are already perceived to be outlandish. It's certainly true that people get it into their heads that "systems" influence choice but sociologists would argue that this is a prime example of reification. It is people, individuals who both create and propagate ideologies. It is not the sytems which persuade anyone. I'm not sure either that any "thing" creates stupidity. We might agree that the quality of television output has changed over time, though it's a subjective view and hard to measure precisely, but's it's not responsible itself for any shift in people's abilities. Nor should we measure those in IQ points, which are a limited time, limited framework, mathematical calculation of a tiny bit of intelligence relating to very specific tests.

Just a few thoughts, Cologne, and a cautious step back into the debate so be gentle