Off Topic Off-Topic Thread (Anything Non-Football Related)

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by TheOXOCube:5pur2, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    Not sure about Kifflom's agenda (if he has one) but he is right that there is a part of Islam that promotes violence against infidels. If you've studied Islam then you will know this. You cannot escape that. Personally I think groups like ISIS have completely warped the Qu'ran to suit their own agenda, but it is a misnomer to say that ISIS have nothing to do with Islam. My personal view is that all religions have aspects that promote hatred and intolerance against non believers and/or condemn them to eternal hell for not believing.
     
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  2. Treble

    Treble Well-Known Member

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    Agreed mate, I'm not disputing you on any of that and you know I have nothing against you. But the actual content of the Kifflom post you liked is virtually all lies. He does this on his own board but there are far too many like him on there to get a word in edgeways. I'd like to think that on other boards, there are plenty of good folk to call him out on his bare-faced lies. He literally makes stuff up and presents it as fact. He definitely has an agenda. I have no particular affiliation to muslims or the Quran, and agree there is a extremist minority who use it to further their own warped agenda - which btw sadly our governments help to finance and fuel, but to me that extremism/fundamentalism is a problem with near enough all religions, not just Islam.
     
    #2082
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  3. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    Fair play, I haven't seen any posts from him before. And agreed on the general point I was making that there is (in my opinion) a problem with near enough all religions around intolerance towards anybody who is a non-believer. I just see that as a form of social control and I do wonder how much the original texts have been re-written over the centuries to support this patriarchal control agenda.
     
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  4. Treble

    Treble Well-Known Member

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    You'll probably shoot me down for this, but by and large I believe religion has been a force for good around the world, and I speak from experience :bandit: When you get away from the sensationalism of current affairs and news events, and actually see how people's beliefs - whether they're Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish etc it makes a considerable difference to the daay to day lives of people who are impoverished and less fortunate. What we see in the news is a political agenda, on all sides which has many players including sectarianism - with Turkey, Syria, factions in Lebanon, Israel, Saudi, U.S, Iran, Russia all with a vested interest. It has little to do with the theology of Islam - but just because we happened to arm and fund a bunch of screwballs into becoming a major force in the region over the last two years, suddenly it's all Islam's fault. Naive. Give any group enough funding and machinery and they'll achieve the same.
     
    #2084
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  5. PISKIE

    PISKIE Roasted Spuds
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    The day to day faith of people I've met around the world is certainly a force for good and social cohesion. I would however take issue with idea of religion as a panacea, I see that more as a coping mechanism set against social injustice. Many oppressed people have sought religion as a panacea, the idea that 'my suffering in this life will be rewarded in heaven' kind of misses the point of life in my opinion. It was Karl Marx who famously said that 'Religion is the opium of the people'. I can understand that if you are poor and oppressed then the idea of religion is a safe place to retreat to, but I take issue with it being used as an alternative to standing up to social injustice.

    Getting into the broader issues of geopolitics / war / resources etc and that has more to do with the military industrial complex, with many of the local countries in the middle east being used as puppets in the proxy wars of the USA, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Russia. But it has to be said, that there is a huge schism within Islam between Sunni and Shiite which is used as a backdrop to fuel tensions in the area and the sectarianism that you mention fans the flames. Then you have the likes of ISIS who see anybody who doesn't follow their strict version of Islam as infidels who should be killed. I'm certainly not saying that it's 'Islam's fault' that the insurgent groups that the west funded and armed are now causing mayhem, the picture is far broader than that and the US has been arming groups in the area since the Afghan / USSR conflict, whilst some of the local conflicts go back centuries.
     
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  6. Kifflom!

    Kifflom! Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear. You've never opened a Qur'an or the Hadith. It's pretty obvious However, I have. I've also read two biographies on Mohammed's life and the excellent Ayaan Hirsi Ali's work on the subject as well as some of Maajid Nawaz. You criticise my post for being 'rubbish' without saying why. Maybe because none of it is factually incorrect, and I dare you to challenge me on that.

    I understand how Mohammed lived his life and why Islam is so divergent. Most Muslims are peaceful because, like most Christians, they cherry-pick. I'm fine with that. I know this because my Muslim Egyptian friends cherry pick and they are lovely people. Long may it continue.

    People like you (usually from the Left) see any criticism of Islam as bigotry. In a free country we should be entitled to challenge bad ideology - and Islam is definitely that.
    • Women treated as second class citizens
    • Gays are persecuted
    • The promotion of Jihad
    • The supremacy of Islam
    • Apostates put to death
    All of this is mandated by Islam. If you want chapter and verse I'll provide it. Are all Muslims bad? Of course not. You won't find a single post where I've said that. But Islam is a pseudo-political ideology and when you understand the principles of Islamic abrogation and Taqiyya you'll realise how dangerous it can be. Islam needs reform from within. Non-Muslims can never achieve that, and I hope that moderate voices eventually prevail.

    Saying so doesn't make me a racist or a bigot. Whilst you're about it I'd be grateful if you'd point out the 'lies' in my posts. Because frankly, I think you're full of ****.
     
    #2086
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
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