Off Topic Off-Topic Thread (Anything Non-Football Related)

Big isn't always best.

 

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Firstly I've already given you evidence, Norway have signed more free trade agreements than the EU since deciding it didn't want to be a full member. It is quite simply much easier to negotiate a deal that works for one country than it is to make a deal which works for multiple countries. What works for the UK doesn't necessarily work for other EU countries.

We are also the 5th/6th largest economy in the world, not some tiny country with nothing to offer.

And at the moment given the fragile economies of the eurozone countries we are in a brilliant position to negotiate a deal with the EU upon pulling out to ensure our trade with the EU doesn't suffer. In fact now is probably the best time there has been to leave since joining! (Which was the point I was actually making in the post you quoted)

 

I'd say now is the worst point to pull out considering all the rest of the worlds major markets are working closer together, our economy has faced the longest recovery from a recession ever and we are beginning to stall, with another recession forecast within the next 2-3 years. As far as I'm aware Norway pays in to the EU just to get access to it, but without any political input or say in any of the decisions - so you are basically giving up power and influence to be dictated rules if you want to join the club.

 

No, I didn't say we would take the same route as Norway, I used Norway as proof of it being easier to negotiate deals outside of the EU. We wouldn't strike the same deal as Norway with the EU.

Like I said we are in a brilliant position to negotiate an exit given the fragile position the eurozone economies find themselves in. They simply couldn't afford to allow trade with the U.K. to be damaged therefor we have fantastic leverage.

 

You could equally and more truthfully argue - especially considering a far greater percentage of our trade is done with the EU than the EU's trade is done with the UK, that we can't afford to lose EU trade, or at the least our competitive edge on trading with the EU. Especially given the precarious nature of our economy (with Osbourne himself giving warnings most weeks about economic performance and the need for cuts).

I still think you are [severely] underestimating just how slow our bureaucracy moves to claim that it will be easier for us to negotiate 30+ trade deals minimum than it would for us to stay in the EU, keep all the existing trade deals and even tweak them to our advantage where we need them?

 

If we left the EU we would become there single largest trading partner, to cut that off would be ridiculous in normal times let alone at a time when the EU are using every monetary trick they can to try and keep the economy from going into deflation. The eurozone is so unstable at the moment that stopping trading with us could see the beginning of the end for the EU, we have an incredible position to negotiate a deal currently. The more unstable the EU is the more leverage we have to negotiate a deal.

As for your second paragraph, the EU are the most slow moving, beurocratic organisation going! I've already given the example of Norway who have out performed the Eu in terms of securing trade deals and we are a far larger, more diversified and more important economy to the world than Norway are. I have no doubts whatsoever that we would achieve deals far quicker than the EU does. As for trying to tweak deals from within the EU, that requires all of the member states to agree which they never do which is why it takes so long to get anything done in the first place! We've tried to encourage a trade deal with India but after almost ten years talks have stalled and we are no closer to having the deal in place. Making deals that suit us as one country is far easier than making deals that suit every member of the EU.

 

Do we actually have any currently?

 

"Strasbourg has spoken, the case is closed"

 

Plenty unless we listen to the Express and Mail - we have democratically elected MEPs who vote on issues important to use and negotiate on our behalf (except the UKIP ones we elected never turn up and never do anything except claim expenses), we have negotiated on huge amounts of subjects to get a good/better deal for the UK on various issues, we can meld laws in a way we like, we can influence how policy is shaped. Whereas if we took the Norway/Switzerland approach we'd have a take it or leave it option on the EU's terms with no negotiation open.

 

How do we 'shape policy'? I'm still confused as I have always had the feeling that we, the UK, under successive governments, have always been on the periphery of policy setting often with our european 'partners' sneering at us. Now there is a threat of us leaving and taking our money, they are queueing up to love us. The more this debate rumbles on, the stronger I begin to feel that europe needs us more than we need europe

 

Football related but still off topic. Good to see Arsenal getting involved in projects like this one, supporting children displaced by war to enjoy the beautiful game.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35846322

 

I saw that story flash up on BBC News 24 with some obviously poor/disadvantaged girls in Arsenal tops while I was working and I wondered what the story was about.

A very good effort by Arsenal.

 

Surprised no-one said anything about Iain Duncan Smith resigning from DWP. I'm not sure what his motives were for the decision, but I'm certainly not sold on the idea of him suddenly seeing the light and opposing the government's austerity measures for going too far for affecting the most vulnerable in society, given that he has been toeing the party line and is responsible for hundreds and thousands of deaths in the last 6 years.

Nadine Dorries took to Twitter to claim that he'd previously been begging her to support the proposed cuts several days before his resigned from his post.

The Tories will be 50:50 on Europe, so does anyone reckon that the decision to resign was, in any way, linked to the EU referendum? Because I was quite stunned when I heard the news. And the timing of it all makes very little sense otherwise.

 

I also think that IBS couldn't give a t0ss about disability benefit, if he did he would have done something about it while they were agreeing on it, not afterwards. It's to cause maximum embarrassment for the current government and push whatever agenda him and others have. Probably linked with Boris and Europe know doubt.

 

At first I thought the man had finally found his conscience, but the cynic in me says it's more to do with a personal rift / difference in the EU stance. Honestly I don't know, it was as big a shock to me too. What it has done though is halted the unbelievable cruel stance the Tory ****ers were taking on slashing disability benefits. Make no mistake these weren't borne out of necessity due to austerity (if that even has any credence anymore) as the arseholes have just handed billions in tax relief to the corporations and the rich.

 

There is no way I believe this odious man has found a conscious after the years of draconian policies under his watch that has caused huge damage, misery and death to the most vulnerable in society.

IMO (though this is an assumption) the move is two fold - 1. it is timed for maximum effect, just after the budget announcement, to embarrass Osbourne and Cameron and undermine them. Coming out of the blue as he'd been campaigning for them (convincing MPs like Nadine Dorries to vote for the cuts just hours before the budget was released) and carrying them out without protest for years.

and 2. There are increasing legal challenges coming from the tens of thousands of deaths caused by his inhumane 'Fit to Work' scheme, which threaten to plunge the government into years of courtroom battles, embarrassments and millions (billions?) of settlement fees. On top of this there is a report due out - following a Freedom of Information request the government have been delaying releasing, but have to release soon - on the abject failure of the Universal Credit scheme, the millions wasted in IT failures, the billions wasted on the project as a whole and how it is still not working correctly. All this is going to be landed at IDS' door. So better to jump before being pushed and make a new powerful friend while you are doing it!

 

But Crabb is no better, a disgusting immoral man (like the rest of that cabinet), who has voted for and campaigned for cuts to the majority of welfare, is an appalling Welsh Secretary, and is now trying to come across as the saviour of the vulnerable and going to stop any cuts hitting the disabled.

His voting record is appalling.

Don't be fooled in to thinking there won't be more cuts, just because PIP won't be cut. The Chancellor has a huge hole in his budget from his mismanagement of the economy and it's only been partially filled by plans to selling off school land and a raid on the remains of public sector pensions.

 

I wonder how many people on here feel like this about the EU referendum - http://electoral-reform.org.uk/blog...out-prediction-eu-referendum-and-other-things

Having little real information about the issues, just scare stories and hyperbole instead, and then expected to make one of the most important national decision for a generation!

 

I agree- I really don't trust anything that is said. Having said that, it is hard to find any reliable neutral commentator