Huddersfield Town v Leeds Utd / Breakfast Debate

Put the fishing rod away, we've already got LL on the wum thanks.

 

Just to round off the perfect day that is why I wouldn't take your advice the other day about changing my settings

 

Even wj is going to think twice before defending this one.... You would think.

 

I would rather ask is it Cellinos fault for appointing Monk - that should keep the early hours scribes busy

 

I am going before it starts.

 

Me too - night all

 

Tough one gents , sounds like you guys went to the fights and a football game broke out . Did Barrow get any minutes ?

 

Unfortunately our substitutions cost us the game today.

Defensively were suffered in the wide areas once Doukara and Dallas went off.

O'Kane at fault for the winning goal should have let the wide player do his job. Instead he went chasing the ball out wide instead of occupying the space inside and therefore preventing the shot.

Very disappointing last 15 mins...we repeatedly gave the ball back to them in our own half instead of keeping possession and forcing them to track back.

On the plus side we gave two players their debuts in a red hot derby which will stand them in good stead for the run in.

 

I did watch the first half Jock, and the second half, the Boxing match and then the rest of match. My comments during first half were, "this is a tight first half, hope we can come out and do same in second" however, Hudders had more of the possession and we did very well to repell their attacks. My comments after 1st half were "that was a very fast paced 1st half, any faster and I would've had to use slow mo".

Don't get me wrong Jock, we played well in both halves, we actually played both halves back to back for a change, but Hudders played that much better, therefore deserved to win, I'm not the only Leeds fan to say that either.

I know some will be looking at blaming Wagner for the cause of the altercation because they don't want to accept it was Monks fault, but in this instance he can't be used as a scapegoat, Wagners celebrations with his players weren't the cause of the altercation, Monks actions were, they were the cause and effect: to top it off, Monk had a go at Wagner on air, and as some Leeds fans said, he shouldn't have done that either.

As TC said earlier, if Monk had done the same thing Leeds fans would've loved it.

The disciplinary board may well look at Wagner running on pitch as a separate issue, but I doubt they will see it as the reason for the altercation.

Monk was the reason for the altercation, frustrated or not, he only has himself to blame.........

 

Sorry, but I don't accept that. If you're familiar with Root Cause Analysis, you'll understand that Wagner WAS the root cause. If he'd stayed in his technical area (as per the strict rules), there would have been no clash. End of. And it's not a disciplinary board that should be investigating, it should be the police. Check the Football Offences Act 1991, Section 4. He did not have lawful authority or lawful excuse, so is clearly guilty of pitch incursion, á la Cawley (who got 4 months in the jug & a 5 year banning order, admittedly there was a common assault charge too).

 

I respect your opinion Jock.....

Wagner running to celebrate with his players wasn't the cause that started the altercation, at that point, and the point where Wagner was running back, there was no altercation, if Monk had allowed Wagner to go back to his own area there wouldn't have been any altercation however, the altercation started because Monk stepped out of his area to purposely nudge Wagner, and Wagner reacted, therefore, the altercation began at the point Monk stepped out of his area to nudge/bump Wagner. Thing is, he did it with the cameras on him, so the evidence will be against Monk.

Monks behaviour / attitude is hardly a role model for the players, and kids watching, then he went on air and bagged Wagner, even mentioned his own values; where were his values when he purposely stepped out of the area to bump Wagner?

This is part of what Monk said about his values,

"They're my values; humility, respect and class, and I don't think he [Wagner] showed that," Monk told BBC Radio Leeds. "If someone else goes against those values then it's wrong.

"I've been brought up with the values, and that's not come back towards us."

Quite a few Leeds fans disagreed with what Monk did, and later said during his interview, so I'm not the only Leeds fan who doesn't condone his behaviour.

Realistically speaking, and in your opinion, do you think Monk went against his own values, if so, and by Monks own admission, do you think he was wrong?

TC posted some pictures of other managers celebrating with their players, not sure how far on the pitch they were though.........

 

You're not listening. Let me ask you a question - would there have been an altercation if Wagner had conformed to the rules & remained within his technical area? Yes or No.

 

I am listening Jock, and I read what you wrote respectfully, however, to answer your question in 3 parts, and at the risk of being accused of being sarcastic, which is not my intent,

1, no

2, had Hudders not scored there wouldn't have been an altercation

3, even though hudders did score, had Monk not stepped outside his tec area and purposely bumped Wagner there wouldn't have been an altercation.

The reason that sparked the altercation was Monks actions, not Wagners......

I'm interested to read what your answer/s opinion is to my question.

 

That's a helluva long way to say 'no'.

To answer point 2 - you're being a bit silly. Many goals have been scored against us, and that's part of the game, and within the rules. Wagners action was not within the rules, thus sparking the controversy. He simply should not have been anywhere near Monk. If he had conformed with the rules, there would not have been a problem. He instigated it by breaking the law.

Just to over Monk's bump - that's all it was. No hands. Could even have been interpreted as an amusing jape if Wagner had responded reasonably. He didn't. He responded aggressively and grabbed Monk with both hands. Now as I recall, up to that point Monk's hands had been in his pocket.

Bottom line though - the Kraut broke the law & if he didn't, there would have been no issue. He needs a good slap.

 

I enjoy our conversations/debates Jock, you're the only one who does it however,

to save us going around in circles, would it be better if you agreed to disagree with me.......

Here's the question I asked you previously,

"This is part of what Monk said about his values,

"They're my values; humility, respect and class, and I don't think he [Wagner] showed that," Monk told BBC Radio Leeds. "If someone else goes against those values then it's wrong.

"I've been brought up with the values, and that's not come back towards us."

Quite a few Leeds fans disagreed with what Monk did, and later said during his interview, so I'm not the only Leeds fan who doesn't condone his behaviour.

Realistically speaking, and in your opinion, do you think Monk went against his own values, if so, and by Monks own admission, do you think he was wrong?

 

There's no doubt that his behaviour was reprehensible, by his standards or anyone else's. He does have my sympathy, however, because of Wagners behaviour throughout the string of events. As I said earlier, Monk's 'bump' could almost be seen as playful (as we say in Scotland "a joke wi' a jag"), but Wagner completely ignored all the rules, and there is no doubt that his aggressive response to Monk's movement caused the meleé.

Only one lawbreaker here, and his actions precipitated the series of events.

 

Fair enough Jock.......

Isn't it great that some of us understand that others are entitled to have a different opinion, thank God for 2 sided coins......

 

So in estate agent talk, that's a no

 

Of course there wouldn't Jock and for anyone trying to blame Monk is bordering on the ridiculous. Wagner broke the rules, end of and should have been dealt with accordingly before he even got back to the technical areas. I've posted an article this morning explaining why those rules are there and must be adhered to. In the end anyway it was a load of handbags

 

I Wagner stays in his technical area none of this happens period. He left it and invaded the pitch and inflamed an emotional situation on and off the pitch.