Eddie Howe - yay or nay?

'Slippery slope'? ... Jesus christ, I really don't know Wenger has done for you to rate what he does so highly or to think he'd be so difficult to replace.

For a manager with his transfer and wage budget he is one of the biggest underachievers in big league football.

 

You think we'd somehow be immune to dropping out of the top 4 ? Dropping down the league even further ? It's happened to Man Utd and Liverpool in the past when they've replaced long standing successful managers. What makes you so sure it wouldn't happen to Arsenal ?

 

Because we're not replacing a long standing successful manager?

 

Therein lies the issue. You think what Wenger does is worthy of being called 'successful'.

 

Wenger is Arsenal's longest standing and most successful manager. Please explain how he isn't a long standing successful manger ?

 

Because I have just higher expectations that you

 

Just so that we get this straight, you're saying that Arsenal's longest standing and most successful manager isn't a long standing successful manager.

Probably best to leave it right there

 

So the fact a manager was once successful makes them permanently successful forever then yeah? Is that what you're saying?

Probably best to leave it right there. Except you won't. Because you can't not ever have the last word.

 

Has the season started already? I must have been sleeping..........

 

Why would I leave it there when you've just asked me to answer your question?

I didn't say he was permanently successful, I said that clubs like Liverpool and Utd have struggled and dropped down the league when they've replaced long standing successful managers in the past. What guarantees do you have that we wouldn't drop out of of the top 4, or further and what guarantees do you have that a new manager would do better than Wenger ? You've just argued that Arsenal's longest standing and most successful manager ever, isn't a long standing successful manager, which is clearly ridiculous.

 

With all due respect Piskie, I don't think the comparison between the criticism Wenger has received and the theoretical criticism Howe would receive is honest. Wenger gets a lot of criticism for being too rigid in his idealist principles, failing to address the glaringly obvious faults in the squad and being reactive rather than proactive (amongst other criticisms of course). These are all valid concerns amongst the fanbase and merely getting in the top four - which should be the minimum he should be doing for us anyway - doesn't change that. If we were pulling out all the stops and trying our absolute best to work on our deficiencies and improve, but still finished 4th, I'd wager most fans would say fair enough. Because at least we are trying to improve and aren't sitting on our hands doing nothing. Unfortunately, a large proportion of Arsenal fans feel like we aren't doing enough to address these flaws, yourself included, and a different manager could work to change that, rather than the status quo.

For the record, I'm not saying Howe is the answer - there are other managers I would prefer instead of him - but if we were to appoint him in the near future, I wouldn't be totally against the move compared to someone like van Gaal . Given what he's done already, I feel like he has the potential to do well at a club that will cater to his needs in the transfer market. But I don't share your pessimism about our future if things don't work out with someone like Howe being appointed, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

Possibly, but at the end of the day it will be the final standings and progression in cup comps that count. If a manager like Howe wasn't improving on what Wenger is doing (and yes I share the frustrations) then the philosophical arguments are just academic.

 

We've not exactly done much in the league for the last decade, so I don't think Howe has to improve an excessive amount in that regard. And we will have no way of knowing how someone will perform compared to Wenger until a successor is announced anyway.

 

You're making up my arguments for me now? I suppose you have to try and win them somehow.

I've argued he's not a successful manager now. He hasn't been for over a decade. It's pretty simple. I can write an essay like you have if you want. But it's not difficult to understand I don't think.

Therefore we aren't replacing a successful manager. We're replacing one who was successful a very long time ago but isn't anymore.

 

I'd like somebody to explain to me why Arsenal would automatically finish in the top 4 when we replace Wenger ?

I seem to be hearing an argument that anybody could do what Wenger is currently doing and that somebody else coming in can easily achieve what he is doing and improve on it. Are Arsenal simply immune to dropping down the league ? Do people think that it is impossible that another manager could actually not do as well as Wenger ?

 

You said that Arsenal's longest standing and most successful manager wasn't a long standing successful manger, do you think people can't read what you have written ?

He's not as successful as he's been in the past, I agree. But I ask you again, do you think that we are simply immune to dropping out of the top 4, Champions league and possibly sliding down the table further ? Because you seem to be arguing that anybody could achieve what Wenger is, without any risk of actually not doing even as well.

 

Where have I said he's not our longest standing or most successful manager?

Again, I'll repeat for maybe the third time now...he's not currently a successful manager, hasn't been for over a decade. You think he is though. Done.

 

No team has any divine right to finish anywhere. You have to work for it. You can just as easily ask why Arsenal won't improve and win the league if we replaced Wenger. Both are equally valid (or pointless, depending on your perspective) questions.

You'd like to think that most competent managers would be able to do what Wenger has currently been doing because getting top four with our squad and resources really shouldn't be that difficult. If we start seeing CL qualification as a yardstick for success, then that just epitomises how our expectations have eroded over the years.

The next manager may be more successful than Wenger. He may also not do very well. We have no way of knowing either way. But what we can say for sure is that the strategy undertaken by Wenger and the board for the past 10 years has not been working out the way it should be. There has to be a change somewhere.

 

Post #23 you said 'we're not replacing a long standing successful manager' when clearly Wenger is our longest standing and most successful manager.

I've already said that he's not as successful as he was, what I am asking you for the third time now is what guarantees do you have that Arsenal are immune to dropping out of the top 4, champions league and sliding further down the table ? What guarantees do you have that the manager replacing Wenger will do at least as well as him and improve on that ?