Off Topic Chelsea Scum (aka The UK Politics Debate Thread)

Of all the issues that we have at the moment, immigration is most definitely not a priority. There are so many misconceptions and myths that are perpetuated about it. As for leaving the EU - I can understand the mixed views on it, however I think it would be beneficial if we stayed.

And by the way - a recent study by UCL showed that European immigrants - the most common migrants to the UK - contribute £20bn to the UK and so give more in taxes than they take in welfare.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

As for UKIP - don't think that they are racist per se, however, they seem to attract some very horrid people who have been caught publicly making all sorts of offensive comments which makes them look even worse.

Some of their policies I do agree with, but there are some key ones which I don't.

 

Seriously, I am in favour of reducing taxes and improving/increasing means testing.

It's not that I am totally opposed to our having a safety net for those that need it, but far too many scroungers are dipping their murky paws into the pot when they should not be allowed anywhere near it.

 

I seems I have accidentally stumbled into "The Big Questions" forum.

 

What the heck i''ll join in. In my opinion prevention is always better than the cure. We should be looking into pro-active ways to improve a healthy lifestyle, instead of creating more drugs to prolong the inevitable. There are so many people that do things the other way. Going to the docs or hospital should be the last resort instead of being the first and only option. Of course there are people with genuine illnesses that need treatment, but we now have a population who are too lazy to look after themselves, there is no responsibility or ownership of actions they take. We live in the "pass the buck" generation where people want others to take responsibility instead of themselves.

No one is forcing you to stuff fatty and sugary food down your gob, but why should I pay for your lack of control? Why can't you get off your fat ass and exercise or take the occasional walk? If that isn't bad enough but some parents are putting their bad habits onto their children. This is already a big problem and becoming a bigger problem by the day. We have illnesses that were not a problem with children of the past. What will happen to these children when they grow up? The one pound chicken and chips generation? I shudder to think.

It's a ticking time bomb and we clearly aren't doing enough to tackle the problem.

 

Completely agree with this.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I work for the NHS and this is the type of work we do, lifestyle interventions, smoking cessation, healthy eating etc. Preventative work is the future of healthcare (for the public sector anyway) and money spent preventing illness will always be more cost effective than trying to mop up illnesses, not to mention the associated cost in lost working hours, sickness benefits etc.

The problem as I see it is two fold.

1. We have a Govt hell bent on selling off the NHS to private health companies, who will (in the words of a friend and clinical commissioning manager) 'cherry pick' the profitable parts with good outcomes (e.g. cataract operations) and leave all of the non profitable stuff with poor outcomes (Palliative cancer care) to an underfunded and overstretched NHS.

2. The Pharmaceutical industry are hell bent on selling as many drugs to as many people for as long as possible. Take Statins for example, the jury is out on their effectiveness to control cholesterol in the general population, but the clinical evidence just about swings in favour of them being advocated (it's not much more than 50/50 odd) So given a licence to produce them, the Pharma industry wants to ensure that as many people as possible take statins for as long as possible to maximise their profits. This is one example, but there are many.

 

Agreed. The NHS is a wonderful organisation but it simply wasn't supported enough, the prevention side of things to begin with. But the pressure from the pharma industry on Government and the medical institutions have worsened the problem. You bring up a really good example of the statins and there is a really good documentary by Dr. MaryAnne Demasi’s on the criminal activity of the pharmaceutical industry regarding cholesterol-lowering statin drugs, which sent shock waves through the mainstream media in Australia at the end of 2013. Published in two parts on the popular news show The Catalyst, the pharmaceutical industry complained loudly after the first show, and requested the network not air the second episode, “Heart of the Matter Part 2 – Cholesterol Drug War.”

ABC Australia aired it anyway, but the pharmaceutical influence was apparently too strong, as they later announced that the network would remove the videos from their website because “they breached its impartiality standards.” All copies found on YouTube were also removed. When you have the power and money that they possess, you can suppress many things!

 

Bit harsh on Cym on both counts...

 

i think so yes if they ever did suggest it. Here is what they say.

 

It gets even more complicated when you take nutrition into account.
Our government and health system over the last 30 years have advocated a diet that is now proven to be totally unhealthy.

The 'low fat' grain heavy processed diet is a failure and a bigger deal should be made of the fact that despite billions of pounds spent pushing this, obesity and lifestyle related deseases like diabetes have increased. The research backing this diet was questionable from the start and in my opinion the damage done to society is being massively underplayed.
Science is now firmly on the side of a high natural fat, low sugar based diet for longevity but our governments refuse to catch up as the financial ties to the food and mass farming industry remain strong.

 

Sorry my iPad has gone bezerk will edit that post shortly^^

 

Around half of Ukip voters say they are prejudiced against people of other races, new opinion research has found.

When Ukip voters were asked by the pollster YouGov whether they would describe themselves as prejudiced “against people of other races”, only 49 per cent said they were not prejudiced.

42 per cent of the party’s supporters admitted to being “a little prejudiced” while 6 per cent said they were “very prejudiced” – a total of 48 per cent.

The results of the poll suggest that Ukip voters admit to being significantly more racially prejudiced than the population as a whole.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...d-against-people-of-other-races-10062731.html

 

You should be a lawyer A87...

Its completely plausible that the next election will see a ukipcon coalition. Not enough people will vote for simpleton Miliband which mean the lefts votes will be divided between labour and the greens imo. Ukip has much more support and seem to be gathering momentum. Conservative will beat labour but only just and Ukip will overtake the libdems as Britain's 3rd most popular party. Seeing as Ukip is the party for the digruntled Conservative voter it's a coalition that has an air of inevitability about it.

 

UKIP gaining more power isn't so bad, because it's usually when parties get into power, that they start losing popularity and credibility when people realise their A) full of ****, B) incompetent.....A good example of that is the Lib Dems, they were riding on a major popular bandwagon during last general elections, and now just look at them, lost a lot of support.

Once UKIP gain more power, as much as their politicians and Farage would like to say so, they will become very much part of the establishment, and just like the rest of politicians, will eventually be more interested in saving their political backsides rather than their original promises to the people.

 

Spot on about saturated fats, our brains needs them. Also our guts need good bacteria for optimum immune system and essential vitamin uptake. A colleague of mine is doing some research about Dementia and Alzihemers and it's relation to the presence or absence of vitamin K in the gut which allows Vitamin D to be absorbed, which in turn creates an environment for essential minerals like Magnesium which maintain neurological health.

 

You've got a point about UKiP. Sometimes you need something to happen to spark some life into the old establishment. The current lot have got so used to getting into power that they seem to say and do the very same thing. There is nothing special or different about any of them. They are like faceless suits with media training to make them seem pleasant. At least Farage says something different, even though most of what he says is balls and he's just a cnut of a man, but at least he's got something about him. Those other 3 are just boring fcuk-faces that regurgitate whatever sh1t their advisers say.

 

You've posted a yougov poll taken over two days, it doesn't state where the research was carried out or what the sample size was for the survey. Not a strong piece of evidence by any means.

The article also gives a percentage of racists amongst the voters of those parties.it gives 28% UKIP as racist, 22% Tories and 13% and 12% for labour and lib dems. Given the number of people who vote for the larger two parties this means the yougov poll shows far more racists vote for the conservatives and labour than for UKIP.

You can't just post an article with a sensationalist title and think that makes your view correct I'm afraid. Feel free to come back with the sample size and location for the poll and reasons why you think it's credible evidence to support your opinion?

 

If they become part of a coalition it means they will have delivered on a referendum on the EU and the vast majority of the UKIP voters will be satisfied with that. Well it won't be a coalition as UKIP have ruled out a formal coalition, but theyve said they will work with any party to deliver on there promises to there voters.

The reason people got so annoyed with the lib dems is because they jumped into bed with the Tories and lib dem voters by nature are anti-Tory. They felt like they'd been sold out so the voters have turned on the lib dems. It wasn't because of them getting into government, it was the fact they had to cozy up to the Tories to get that chance. Lib dem voters feel the lib dems sold out on there principles.

UKIP have said a referendum on the EU would be the sticking point for any discussions so can't see them selling out there voters in the same way. It's a party with far more conviction for individual policies.

All that said, I agree, once a party actually gets into power you can see what they are really made of, what issues do they try and carry through on? Which policies all of a sudden get forgotten? Etc...

 

This is one of the reasons I am pleased with UKIPs rise to popularity. They have the potential to shock the political system. They are the first party in 100 years to win a national election other than the Tories or labour. If they can get in and shake up the established order even more then fantastic! I'd like to see more of the small parties make an impact whether I agree with there opinions or not. The smaller parties take stronger stances on topics which gives us more opinions, more opinions means more angles are looked at and people can decide which option is the best. As it stands the big two try there hardest to not do or say anything which some people might not like.

Anything which helps change or at least disrupts the two party system we have I'm all for!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31580374

Those from the big parties showing the little guys how to conduct themselves as politicians. Labours jack straw admitting to taking £60k from a private business to try and change policy in its favour. Labour, the working mans party? I think not.

I don't know how anyone can bring themselves to vote for labour or conservatives tbh! Haven't they been ****ing us all over for long enough now? It's time for an era of smaller parties having a say, rather than this duopoly where the elite are picked and know they will be in power and the issues people feel strongly about get brushed under the carpet as an inconvenience.

 

Farage is making a speech right now by the way, the content is available live on the BBC. Once again they've reiterated that the NHS should remain free at the point of service.