I posted this on the Premier League board, but I think it's relevant to Spurs, too. The new stadium gives us an opportunity to get some of this sorted from a fresh start. It's a league wide issue, but we'd do well to address it as quickly as we can, in my opinion. I'm not posting this as a dig at Arsenal, but I thought this was fairly interesting, in spite of it's source: It's clearly focused on a comparison between two teams, but I think it highlights something else. Clubs in the Premier League seem to have lost some of their connection to the fans. Dortmund seem determined to hold onto that and it's massively helped their image and matchday atmosphere. The safe-standing, cheer leading, club songs and flags help, but the respect of the players was a big thing. It's not hard to have them show a little appreciation at the end of a game, but it's meaningful to the fans. Having them run off to the dressing room as quickly as possible just shows a lack of class. What else was missed from the clip and what is missing in English football at the moment?
But do Bundesliga teams issue their fans with cardboard clappers, which in no way looks as pathetic as it sounds?
English football used to be like that. When I went to games regularly in my teens/20s in the late 80s/early 90s, the atmosphere was special. You could pay at the turnstile, stand where you wanted and join in (or not as you wished). It was an experience and it didn't cost a fortune. You came out with your ears ringing as if you'd been to a music concert. But things change. Hillsborough (and other incidents) changed things so much. All-seater stadia have resulted in higher prices. Sitting down and cost are the two factors which have changed the demographic of the fans who attend these days. There seem to less "hardcore" fans and more of the prawn sandwich brigade Keano spoke of. Going to watch a big club play has become part of the corporate events circuit or something tourists do as part of their experience of a big city. I know people who have season tickets at Old Trafford, who sit next to someone different every game because seats have been bought for businesses to sell as part of hospitality or tourist packages. You'd feel very conspicuous standing up and singing surrounded by Japanese tourists who are sat in silence! It's only away fans who seem to make any noise now. So the atmosphere at grounds has changed. Returning to large areas of terracing and reducing prices is the only way to reclaim the old atmosphere, but safety regulations and corporate interests make that unlikely to happen at the big clubs. Good atmospheres still exist at smaller clubs though. It's well worth watching League One or Two teams who are chasing promotion at this time of year. 8,000-9,000 "hardcore" fans packed into an old ramshackle ground, high on the thrill of seeing a winning team pushing for promotion makes for a great atmosphere - especially so with teams exceeding expectations, whose fans have been long suffering. It's often hard for those kind of experiences to be replicated in the PL.
Drinking has become an expensive hobby too. It does loosen the tongue and add to the atmosphere. Free beer with every goal? The flags given to us at Wembley (cup final, forget the game) were amazing. More of that for sure. And I know the plastic clappers are frowned upon, but I thought they were great at Swindon Town. Not everyone knows the chants. Clapping with gloves on never works. The kids loved them too And the bit about not being able to shout abuse at the players..? C'mon. If the Big Jessie wont jump for the ball, he needs to be told The hype man is so simple and effective. Reminds me of MCs at raves
If any of you want to know how atmosphere can be created have a look at the J League from Japan or K league from South Korea. They have a leader (they call them Capo's) he stands with his back to the game but uses a megaphone to start chants and songs. We have it to a lesser extent here in our A League (google Western Sydney Wanderers red and black block) .It will never go back to the old days but you have to hope.
It takes very little time for traditions to disappear. I am worried about people by-passing the season ticket list through purchasing premium priced tickets. I understand that the stadium has to be paid for but OS says that these deals are starting at £4,000+ per ticket and that the coommitment is for a minimum of 2 seats for 3 years. That's £24,000. If I tell the Mrs that I've spent that kind of money on 2 seats, they'd better have Jaguar bodywork enclosing them or I'm sleeping on the sofa in perpetuity. The cost of those packages and the news that they're selling well suggests significant corporate buying. Now, I've dipped my snout in some corporate football hospitality from time to time and I much prefer this arrangement to the Executive box but there needs to be a balance and such sales HAVE to be kept out of the main stand. That is our opportunity to retain the spirit of The Park Lane/Shelf. People know that is going to be 'the home end', the modern version on 'The Spion Kops' of old. If we get that right with those that will bring noise and tradition in there, then it should pull the rest of the ground into making noise too. Balls that up and we'll regret it for a long time, no matter how good the facilities are. Supporters may no longer be the lifeblood of a club in financial terms, however, if the atmosphere of 'The Lane' is lost no amount of money will compensate for what will have died.
I do hope someone of significance listens to the fans and reads these Forums!....imagine our best team in ages suffering because of a new Stadium, that is not the purpose of it. It irks me everyday, somewhere in the back of my head that it won't be called WHL...imagine the mood if that place is souless...it'll be like West Ham!
Ridiculous TV-driven kick off times haven't helped either. Noon on a Sunday, especially when the weather is ****...no-one can be bothered to stand up and sing. They're all too tired/hungover to bother. Same goes for all those weird late night midweek fixtures we've seen a lot of thanks to our annual outings to Never Never Land in the EL. I've been to a fair few of those games, went straight from work and tbh if I'd had a tough day at the office was too exhausted to sing that much. Also many are cautious about getting too 'tanked up' with work early the next morning. Saturday afternoons at 5.30 remain, for me, the perfect time for a KO. Plenty of time to get a few beers in, you've unwound from the working week, nothing to wake up for the next morning so you can shout yourself hoarse.
Football's no longer a working man's sport here in England. When clubs - including Spurs, I'm not going to exclude them for being embarrassing with prices - are charging fans between £30-£60 (roughly) for a single match ticket and then with some clubs reaching prices of about £2000+ for a season ticket, your every day "geezer" just can't afford that **** and what you're getting in place of that most of the time is some toff who goes to a game with an air of expectancy and will rarely sing/ chant but then boo if the result isn't in their favour. I'm fortunate enough to own a season ticket at Spurs but do I think I'm paying a fair price? Do I ****, it's extortionate and I have one of the cheapest ones available. Not that I'm doing this just to dig at Woolwich but imagine paying their highest season ticket price of over £2k and watching Bayern Munich destroy your team knowing their fans get to regularly watch them for between £100-£550 per season? It's a joke. It's something I've brought up before but to quote Uli Hoeness a couple years back: 'We could charge more than £104. Let's say we charged £300. We'd get £2m more in income but what's £2m to us? 'In a transfer discussion you argue about that sum for five minutes. But the difference between £104 and £300 is huge for the fan. 'We do not think the fans are like cows, who you milk. Football has got to be for everybody. 'That's the biggest difference between us and England.' ****ing nails it. It's no wonder Germany (and most of Europe) generate a better atmosphere when they're still getting the working man and woman at their matches who just love being able to support their team no matter what the result.
Where have all the young soul rebels gone ? Football was full of young men , comrades it was there life . They lived for it and in some cases would fight for it . The globalisation, middle class intrusion into the working people's game has sanatised it of it's soul . Compare a cup final in the 70S with today's insipid fair . . Wall to wall standing , home made flags, banners, but more than anything a communal will. The ugly side was the violence that this intensity could bring. There is no comparrasion today.
Sorry but these are excuses. are you telling me Dortmund always play 5:30 on a saturday afternoon? As PNP opened up by saying. we have an opportunity to put things right as we increase attendances.If nothing else our wall has to work and the club have to work out a way to populate it with fans who want to create an atmosphere. We have read about how the club have employed acoustic experts, now they need to employ tactics to make sure the right supporters get the tickets.
That "wall" section needs to be filled with as many of the current Shelf / Park Lane singers as possible. If that means you have to attend a singing audition in front of the 1882 crowd to get a seat there, so be it.
