This question was asked last week between those who regularly watch the training . sessions at Motspur Park. Has Jol bought wisely,were they worth the money paid, could they eventually become premiership quality, and can his judgement be trusted to spend more in the transfer window. Following a discussions on the subject,all the Ps & Qs analysed,among the 12 of us it was an 8 to 4 no, on all points. I myself was somewhat undecided on Ruiz,but in complete agreement otherwise. The jan window will be so critical as all the bottom 6/8 teams will be jostling to buy wisely,and hopefully move away from the drop zone. What are the views on the aforementioned points you FFC 606rs.
Think he bought sensibly. If i was to rate him from 1-10 I would give him 7. Ruiz is still to prove himself and the rest are all young and very promising. Although Riise has not given as much as expected his experience is valuable and was proven against Liverpool. Grygera was injured as he was coming good. The money to be made available to him will depend on the people going.
The fact that we are all screaming for new signings in January (RB, CM, FW) suggests that no, Jol hasn't bought wisely. Let's have a look. Riise - Can't say he has lived up to expectations, for me I thought he was a safe bet, a guarantee to be AT LEAST a solid player, he has done well everywhere he's been after all, but for me he's disappointed. I'd bring back Salcido who in my opinion is the better player. Kasami - A few nice touches but not experienced enough, needs to go out on loan really. Is he the replacement for Murphy? Not by a long shot. Could be good in a few years but for now, he hasn't been great. Gecov - Hardly used, even Davies who has been out for 6 months got a game on the weekend. Looked decent against Chelsea. Sa - Awful, hope we don't sign him permanently. Grygera - Impressed me before he got injured, very steady player. Unspectacular but made the right back slot his own. Somogyi - Hasn't been used. Waste. Ruiz - Hard to tell because he has flashes of genius (Everton) but looks too inconsistent, a bit like Dembele last season. Was it really worth spending £12 million on someone who Jol claims will take at least a season to adapt to the PL? In my opinion, no. His debut against Blackburn was woefully bad. So the only one who had actually been good in my opinion is now out for the rest of the season. In January we need to do serious business. Gignac in for Zamora Maynard in for AJ Murphy's replacement in midfield Reliable right back (don't see Grygera getting an extension) A new left back if Riise doesn't buck his ideas up, but I doubt Jol would drop him anyway.
Braodly agree, although not with the statement that Salcido is a better player than Riise. I thought Grygera was going to do very well and it is a real blow that we probably won't see him again. Don't get me started on Ruiz.
Reports in one of todays newspapers that AV is interested in taking Zamora in the Jan window?. If as it seems he is unhappy at Fulham, yes take 7/9 mil. But with his present track record could Jol be trusted to buy wisely.
I think it's a case of "you get what you paid for..." Sa cost us nothing, beyond his salary. Gecov is young, Riise cost us nothing beyond his salary. Ruiz was the big-money signing and I think it's too early to judge. I was saying the same thing about Dembele at this time last year. He was the big signing, got injured twice and by the end of last season he seemed like a flop for us. But look at him now! I'd argue Dembele is our best outfield player, at the moment. I think the same will be true, too, for Ruiz. He's still not up to EPL speed or fitness, but he's got vision for the pass and he's very clever with the ball. So, for me it's too early to tell, but he seems to be improving rapidly.
I agree with DR. What he says on Ruiz and Dembele matches my feelings on those two. It's harsh to judge Jol now on the signings of Gecov and Kasami if they were bought with the intention of using them as youngsters to develop rather than ready-made first teamers. We all had high hopes that they would come straight into the team, but that doesn't mean Jol and his coaching staff ever saw it that way. Sa feels like he ought to be doing better, but he's still only 23 (I just looked him up on Wiki) the same as Gecov, so is perhaps another one who may improve with age/experience/time on the training ground. Because we bought Kasami for a decent sized fee, I think we all expected more of him, but he's only 19.
None of Orlando Sa, Grygera, Gecov, and even Ruiz have had hardly any game time to be able to settle into the first team properly. Somogyi !!!! Didn't understand the transfer at the time. Probably a cheap option so that Stockdale could be let go to Ipswich on Loan. So must be tax loss thing ? (We seem to buy one or two of these players each season !!!) Sa thought he played OK against Chelsea, and WBA. Rest have been sub for last ten minutes. It looks with Grygera's injury he may be unlucky and he will not return to the first team. Seemed to be a tough tackling fullback, with good defensive qualities, but not an attacking fullback. Riise, don't think he's got the legs to bomb forward and get back hence he puts a strain on the defense because Hangeland has to cover for him, leaving the center open. Kasami has been inconsistent, he's had good games and poor games. Thinks he's going to be used as a bit of a utility player in midfield. Still only young, so needs Premier experience, could become a good buy. Gecov - been disappointed he has not got more game time but in still young, so Sidwell, Murphy and Baird are all in front of him in experience. Ruiz, when we bought him I had an arguement with a Cardiff fan (Swamp) who said he knew all about Ruiz and he was used as an striker by Twente, but in the games I saw him play for them he was more of a midfield winger. I have a friend who lives in Den Haag, and he said don't see him as a replacement for Zamora, more a replacement for Duff, or maybe Johnson if played more in the center. Still think Jol did make a mistake and thought he was able to play in the Europa. I did at the time myself, because I thought prelim-Champions league didn't count. All in all I think it's a work in progress. No one is the finished article.
Super Bri ... I agree with what you said of Ruiz - not quite a winger and not quite a striker. Certainly not a replacement for Bobby, though he's taller. We actually have three players who fit that mold: Dembele, Ruiz and Dempsey. They're all a kind of quazi-striker who would rather face the defender than play with the defender at their back. They're all very skillful and clever with the ball, and if they can learn to work together as a unit, they might score a boat-load of goals. But I get worried when people talk about Bobby leaving. Neither Dempsey, Dembele nor Ruiz seem to function well as that "target" man, knocking down and holding the ball while others join the party, so without strong target man I wonder what will become of our offense.
If Bobby goes it will surely mean someone else coming in (or - less likely - up from the youth/reserves). Lets just hope that if it comes to that it's someone who can settle quickly and make an instant impact. I'm still hoping that Bobby regains his mojo and starts playing the way we all know he can. The events of the last week have left me less optimistic about that though. If he doesn't get picked on Wednesday, or if he starts and doesn't impress, then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Jol's input to this debate at the weekend was - "I would like to strengthen here in January but it is about finding the specific players." "We have a good squad here and I don`t think there will be too many moves in January. I`m not worried about Bobby because I still think he wants to play for the club." Make what you will of that. The January window is infamous and precarious. The single determing factor for our club is that any purchase(s) must be up and running, as Captain says.
My question to you folks is: do we absolutely need a target man? If the answer is no the Bobby is not required.
I would flog him to the higest bidder. Teams that are fighting for Europa won't be interested, and teams from the Championship can't afford him, therefore we have no option but to offload him to a club around us.
Yes, if we're selling we shouldn't be sniffy about where he goes, we should look for the best available deal for the club. But I disagree that we have no option - we have the option of keeping him, at least until the summer. It may be unwise in terms of having a disrupting and unhappy presence about the place, but it's an option nonetheless. I don't think Bobby is finished at Fulham just yet, although if Jol leaves him out tomorrow night it will be hard to see things turning around for him.
I disagree Captain. To leave your star striker out of the squad, to not even have him on the bench tells me that he's finished. If he is unhappy which he obviously is then I think the club would do well to get him out ASAP. Bobby probably has a lot of influence at FFC, and by keeping one unhappy player there, he could certainly unsettle a few others.
I think we'll know more on Wednesday night, Bandit. We'll find out then whether Jol left Bobby out to save him/provoke a performance out of him for the Europa game. If he doesn't start tomorrow, then it's a pretty big sign that Jol has lost faith in him, in which case we should look to cash in. If he plays, things aren't as black and white. Of course, if he plays and plays badly, then we can expect AJ to return against Bolton, and then we're back to making the best of things by getting the best offer we can in January. I haven't given up hope on Bobby, although I must admit I have my doubts.
Agree about Riise, Bandit. Not sure about Salcido but it was worthwhile reminding us that he is still on the books. In fact he played the full 90 minutes on Sunday when his club Tigres beat Santos to become the Mexican champions.
I don't think Salcido is a great player or even a very good one, but I'm positive he would be no worse than Riise, going on his current form anyway. Briggs has looked promising but very much out of his depth against the big boys in the league.
