Apparently a player cannot have world class ability unless they play for a big team like Man Utd or Barcelona. Discuss. (Somebody who supports a "big" club thinks this, if you are wondering it is random)
It is utter nonsense, I heard that on talkshite from Ray houghton when he was talking about bale, saying until he leaves Spurs and plays for either Madrid or Barcelona he cant be classed as world class. His performances week in week out for Spurs are what is important. I would agree it is how they perform against the best players in the world is important, not playing alongside them. Not wanting to start arguements, but gerard has prooved this, the guy has been world class but hasnt played for a big team.
I am not being anti-Welsh here or even taking the piss but unless a player excels on the "world stage", i.e the World Cup then I don't see how they can even be considered to be world class and that unfortunately would, in all probability, exclude Gareth Bale from becoming a world class player, as good as he is now or ever could be for Barcelona, Real Madrid (Insert any big European name you like here).
But the World Cup is inferior to the big four european leagues (Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A). The World Cup is also massively inferior to the European Champions League Group Stage. The World Cup has teams like North Korea in it every time, the worst team from the four big leagues would annihilate those guys and probably with second string teams. And then the best teams in those big four leagues would annihilate the likes of Germany and Italy, only Spain would stand a chance but even then, I doubt Spain could compete against club teams because those clubs see their players practising together all the time. They would be a far more cohesive unit. Having seven Barca players helps, but they would be found out easily in the area's where players who don't train with them are attacked. Bale has shown his class in the Premier League and European Champions League.
pro, i totally agree with you. It is who and how you play against the so called big sides that is important. Playing against New Zealand in the world cup or Inter Milan in the champions league and tearing them apart.
Exactly. Scoring for the win against Saudi Arabia... wow, what an accomplishment! Bale, singlehandedly destroying Man Utd at the beginning the season.... now that was a performance from which has not looked back.
But not against Brazilian or Argentinian sides - hence not world class. Alas they are not labelled European class as it doesn't have the same ring to it I guess.
What I would add is that the term "World Class" is well and truly over-used to describe a players ability. Yes they are good and at or very near the top of their profession BUT we Brits accuse the Yanks of being insular with competitions such as the World Baseball series in which only American teams compete and I will bet a lot of those players are tagged "World Class" but we would argue that they are not because the rest of the world does not compete.
so, I know this is totally hyperthetical ( appologies for the spelling). If Messi had decided not to play international football, he would never be classed as world class. The world cup is totally inferior to the champions league. Where Bale or similar are playing against the best from each country all around the world. Those players from Argentina and Brazila are plying their trade in the european leagues not at home. There is not a national squad in the world that bale would not get in to.
But in the champions league and the best leagues in europe, all the best players from around the world compete in it, not just home grown players. so i dont quite see your arguement. If you were saying he was world class simply by plaing PL football in a league full of his own countrymen then your arguement would stand but. But as we know that is not the case.
Both teams would get annihilated by the likes of Inter Milan, Barcelona and Man Utd. If a player can compete brilliantly in the Champions League but not be part of the usual traditional big teams like Man Utd, Inter or Barca.... then is he not world class simply because he is not playing for the big guns?
I would say that the world stage is not the World Cup, or if we are to include the World Cup as the world stage, then that opens up alot of other competitions to be the world stage. Messi has excelled because of La Liga and ECL, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard for Premier League and ECL.
okay, I am in a minority of one. It's my view and I'm sticking to it But I will respond to this before I go Has Messi excelled on the world stage? Who was the last English player to excel on the world stage? No and none, so that kind of blows the lid on Wayne Rooney being World Class eh? Why do fans tag players as World Class anyway? Because that is what the media has done to hype up the PL, Champions League etc. Yes those teams are the best in Europe and include most of the top European players and even some from South America but by being the best in European football doesn't make you World Class same as being brilliant in the World Baseball Series doesn't make you a World Class baseball player. That is why I said the term is used far too much to describe ability. Diego Maradona - he did it consistently on ALL levels from his early days in Argentina, in Europe and the World Cup - he WAS World Class. There are very few football players that have reached the level he did. If Messi can lead his country to glory, then I would consider him to be very close but there are not many others that are even close. They are good but not that good. In the PL we hear about World Class players, English one's at that - Wayne Rooney? World Class - really? I think Alan Shearer and Gary Lineker were better and they were not world class players.
Messi at 25 has already scored more goals than Maradona did in his entire career. Messi is also just 3 goals shy of Maradona's total for Argentina despite Messi playing 14 games less. He is better player than Maradona and it is not just the goals, it is his Maradona-esque runs which are done against the likes of a Real Madrid galacticos squad, he did it against Bayern Munich a few seasons ago, he did it more than once against a very powerful Dortmund team to score five goals in one Champions League match!!! He has already set up more goals for other players than Maradona achieved in his whole career. Even Maradona has come out and said Messi is better than he was. I think you are probably using World Class as "Sporting Phenomenon". Messi is a Sporting Phenomenon like Maradona was, but Messi is the better Phenom. World Class and "Phenom's" are different things, Phenom's tend to appear but once or twice ever ten years or so. Messi has: 5 La Liga Championships 2 FA Cup equivalents 5 Charity Shield equivalents 3 UEFA Champions Leagues 2 UEFA Super Cups 2 FIFA Club World Cups 1 Ballon D'Or (2009) 1 FIFA World Player of the Year (2009) 3 FIFA Ballon D'or's (2010, 2011, 2012) 3 FIFA World Soccer Young Player Of The Year awards 3 World Soccer Player of the Year awards 2 IFFHS Worlds Highest Scorer awards 2 UEFA European Golden Shoe awards 4 UEFA Champions League Top Scorer (2009, 2010, 2011, 2012) Highest Goalscorer in Copa Del Rey history Highest Goalscorer in Barcelona history He is closer to 18 years old than 35. The guy is proven on the world stage.
It's hard to draw a comparison with Pele or any player prior to the early to mid 80's, playing in "foreign" countries was practically unheard of when they played the game let alone other continents. Next you'll be making a case for Nat Lofthouse Like I suggested, World Class is a media term that has caught on, not unlike the PL being the best league in the world - according to Sky and every newspaper or magazine you will read in the UK. Players are being branded the same at teams and leagues and supporters go along with it and churn out the same spin. It's a a term I rarely use because of my view of things perhaps. I would call players brilliant, excellent, genius etc but almost never say player XXX was World Class. Same as a World class goal or save, great goals or save, stunning goals or saves yes but world class? Cobblers.
world-class (wûrldkls) adj. 1. Ranking among the foremost in the world; of an international standard of excellence; of the highest order: a world-class figure skater. 2. Great, as in importance, concern, or notoriety. The phrase is not overused. I have only heard four England players being referred to as World Class, they Rooney, Gerrard when he was younger, Lampard and Ashley Cole. I don't think the media has even said John Terry was world class. But under the dictionary explanation then there is reason to believe that those four are Englands four World Class players. It is just that other national teams may have 6, 7 or more. Gerrard is no longer referred to as being world class by the media, they are saying he is now getting older and slower.
'World Class' what defines or constitutes this label? times move on, who do I think is world class? Pele? Yes, but do players have to play in the world cup finals to be classed as World class? No. Maybe years ago in the 70's and 80's perhaps, but today what are the most demanding top Leagues and competitions? making a conclusion on the World cup participation alone would be flawed, making judgements that you must compete against south American players, while true years ago is no longer true today, why? because south American football no longer dominates the world stage like it did years ago, where is Brazil today? How come a very average team like England can get such a result recently against Brazil, and what of the emerging strengths of the European teams, surely as things stand today, European competitions are the zenith of a players achievement, what South American team is going to get a result against Germany or Spain. The way I see it Europe has passed South America in the great game, and any player that plays for the top teams of Europe, both in domestic and Champions League, is World Class as far as I'm concerned, and if you take the example of Bale, What team in South America or Europe wouldn't have him in their side, surely we need to use discernment here when evaluating whether a player is world class or not, some common sense surely must be applied........
Apparently a player cannot have world class ability unless they play for a big team like Man Utd or Barcelona. sad but true.....
