Will we ever see 50%+ academy products together in the first XI ?

Cast your minds back a few years at the start of Nicola Cortese's tenure as Saints supremo when he stated that the club's business model was based on Barcelona's and he wished to see the first team made up of more than half with our home produced players.
Now fast forward five years to the present and only JWP can be regarded as a first team regular. Now with Morgan looking likely to move on there are reports that the club is willing to spend big to replace him, this will mean that the likes of JWP and Harry Reed will still be used sparingly. and two members of the feted "class of 2012" have already moved on after being lured away by a richer club. Will this always be the case?, that we will be forced to sell our best young talents. In theory, we could already have half the first team of homegrown players.
I would like to see it happen one day, but I fear the reality is that the better products will always be cherry picked by the bigger clubs and we will recycle the cash into new signings.

 

It's difficult, but not impossible. Olympique Lyon managed to do that, 8-9 players from their first eleven are academy products: Lopes, Umtiti, Tolisso, Ferri, Grenier, Fekir, N'jie, Gonalons, Lacazzette. But you have to produce a group of highly talented youngster like this one, and then keep them around for a while. Looking at our academy, it is possible that we could have 3-5 academy graduates in the first eleven trough the next five years or so, JWP, Reed, Targett, Gallagher, McCarthy and Hesketh being the prime candidates.

 

I disagree completely. With the Europa League hopefully added to the number of competitions we will be playing in next season, this can only give more opportunities for the Academy lads to break through. JWP and Reed are practically there already, Matt Targett will have plenty of playing time in the various cups, as will the likes of Bevis Mugabe, Jake Hesketh, Dom Gape and of course Sam Gallagher. These boys haven't been given professional contracts for nothing, after all. And why should we allow the so-called bigger clubs to help themselves any more? The club is being developed with a sustainable business model and the most efficient way of using the talent from the Academy is to bring through a certain number into the first team, as well as selling those who aren't needed. It may take another 5 or 10 years but I see no reason why eventually the 50% mark might not be achieved.

 

IMO no chance, especially if we remain a top 8 side as they'll always be the chance of a luke shaw outcome, which SFC won't be able to control / nor resist.

 

Hesketh, Sims, McCarthy and Seager can't be too far away from breaking into the first team. Then we've got JWP, Targett, Reed and Gallagher. I'd say it is likely this will happen, maybe not this season coming but next season.

 

I reckon we will always have a number of academy graduates in the first team squad, but it is unlikely that we will regularly field a side with 50% home grown players in.

 

Interesting point. I don't get the impression we fought too hard to keep Chambers.

While keeping high quality Academy players might be quite hard, the really hard thing will be producing that many players good enough to play for a top 6 (ish) club. How may teams have ever done that?

 

It's not totally beyond the realms of possibility that JWP, Reed, Targett, Gallagher and one other start a match this season.

I think we will always have players in and around the first team. Whether we hit a specific quota is another matter. Having the best possible first team has to be the priority

 

It's worth remembering that our academy graduates are all currently quite young. If you added one more player per season, and held on to most of the rest - you would eventually have at least 50%. We'll never bring through 50% all at once, but patience may bring its own rewards.

 

-------------------Forster
Chambers Fonte Alderwereild Shaw
------------Schneiderlin Reed
---------JWP Lallana Bale
---------------Gallagher

 

Swap Gallagher for Walcott and JWP for Chamberlain and that would be an alright side I suppose

 

How the **** did I forget Walcott and Chamberlain? I must have gooner blindness.

 

With the likes of:
Reed
Targett
Prowse

Who have already got into the squad

And:
Wood
Mugabi
McCarthy
Gape
Seager
Gallagher
Sims
Etc

We won't be far off having 50%+ for the squad. It will take a few more years to see how good these youngsters get to see about first team.

 

And JWP for Reed, I reckon that team would be exciting to watch and score some goals!....6 full England internationals and 4 others and the U21 captain.
About £250m worth of talent!

 

We've had a good crack at it, but its so difficult, not just bringing the good ones through, but keeping the better ones.

 

It was already achieved the season before last albeit briefly towards the end of the game. No doubt will happen again but foreign players still required for the 'bigger' Europa squad.

 

I wouldn't consider this achieved by having 5 (or 6 really) Academy players on the pitch at the same time, or there being the odd game where that many start. To me the first XI is the best team that can possibly be put out and the target is clearly to have 5/6 players in the best team we can possibly put out. There's a couple close but as of the end of the season I'm not sure any Academy players would get into our current first XI.

 

I think that's close Puck but too black and white. Remember Nige? It's not about the eleven?

I would say that what you say is close but not quite there as the "strongest 11" thing is a bit of a mythological beast these days. For example, during this season, playing Cork and Morgan may have been more appropriate to playing Morgan and Vic, depending on opponents. Play Davis or JWP, play Long or Elia, Tadic or Mane.

For these reasons I do think it is about having 50% of the 16-20 match day options being from the academy. It is about having genuinely equal or very close to equal replacements from the academy. This is why I would consider JWP, Reed and Targett already in that category. Players like Hesketh, Gape, Seager, Gallagher, may or may not be close, but the day we pick Tadic over Hesketh or Long over Gallagher based on form and a genuine choice, is when we can include those academy players in the measure.

 

I take the point about more than 11 players but if you look at our squad now and said pick the team when everyone is fully fit, there are about 7 or 8 players that everyone would have in their team no matter who the opposition were. There'd be a bit of debate about the 3 attacking midfielders and maybe DM but that's it.

To me JWP is a rotation option. He'd be in most match day squads but I'd only pick him to start if others were unavailable/injured/in need of a rest. I don't really rate him as highly as some do though. Reed is in a similar position but closer to being picked sometimes. Targett is very much a back up player at the moment.

 

Targett is a first team player. The fact he is back up to Bertrand because Betrand is better and rarely doesn't play, emphasises my point. Will we sign a left back? Doubt it. Why? That's because Targett is considered good enough to play first team as he showed int he Premier league games he played. Same for JWP.

As soon as you say back-up or rotation, you fall into the "just the 11" trap.

With that logic, Shane Long isn't a first team player.