How can WFC let this boy go to a club that is a division below us? Its not like we din't have the money or has the club got another possible left back/midfielder lined up that we don't know about. This sort of thing reallly gets up my nose
Maybe because, after making all the right noises and wanting to join us and play at a higher level, he decided to join the "revolution" which is supposedly going on at Charlton. Was it money? Was it his family? Was it Powell? We may never know what swayed him but if his is swayed that easily then we're better off looking elsewhere. Edit: and if it was a case that he was engineering a better deal for himself at Charlton then we are DEFINATELY better off looking elsewhere!
I'm not sure we will ever know the 'real' reason for him going... Maybe he thinks we'll get relegated and they'll get promoted so what's one more year - but a big gamble to take! Maybe he just doesn't feel ready for the step-up yet Maybe Charlton offered more money Maybe the Watford link was all down to getting the move to Charlton Whatever the reason, we just have to move on. If it is the latter, just shows his lack of ambition. If it's mroe of a former, then you certaily hope is 'gamble' doesn't pay off
I do not find this so hard to understand. Charlton are a better resourced club than we are, with a bigger fan base, a recent record of being in the top flight, and a plan for progress , not survival, which they can present to new recruits. They can clearly match, if not exceed what we can offer in transfer fees and wages to players we might both want. This time next year it would not be surprising if they are in the Championship--a bit more surprising if we still are. Any ambitious young footballer in Wiggin's position would probably make a similar decision. Why are people still in denial about our financial position? We have just lost a promising player to a newly promoted League One side, who can afford to pay £1m for him--when will we be able to afford to pay £1M for a player again? The "wage cap" of £5k a week refers to what we can pay to keep the most experienced players such as Eustace and Taylor-- our new recruits must come in at much less than that, and with 20-odd teams in the Championship and half a dozen in League One able to pay more, we are clearly not going to be very competitive in this market.
Very true Roger ,however that doesnt make very good reading ,It certainly doesnt help with MM nicking most of our target knowledge and backroom staff. SD is having to plug a lot of holes and fast, whilst he is doing that ,lets hope Mr Wilson earns some of his money and finds someone who we can afford! to add to the playing staff! The only good thing I can see (as long as we dont get pillaged again!) is that a lot of our kids are 1 season more experienced and know each others strengths and weaknesses! and that sort of continuity has to count for something!
But Charlton have been in decline for a number of years. I don't see why the forthcoming season will be different. Unlike when Leeds, Forest and Southampton were down there, I don't feel that in Charlton's case there is a sleeping giant waiting to rise up. Historically it's a successful club but recent successes appear to be almost exclusively down to Curbishley, who is long gone. We have little money and surely everyone knows that; if anyone still doesn't, it's time to smell the coffee. This doesn't change the fact that we are still a Championship side. If Wiggins' transfer was motivated solely by ambition rather than money, then he's taking a gamble on Charlton, in my view. That league is pretty hard to get out of (I can certainly see both Sheffield sides and Huddersfield being strong) and, in any case, if he really wanted to move to a higher level he could have sampled that with us. With Charlton there are more variables.
I think he was offered more money and went there! If thats the case , he obviously is a little lacking in the brain cell department or has taken bad advice from his agent!
Well said Roger. At last, someone who has his feet firmly on the ground. Even when (if) we pay off our current debts, will this leave us in any fit position to move onwards and upwards? I suspect not. The recent defections of MM & (most of) his staff, the sales of both Graham & Buckley and the failure to recruit Wiggins are absolute pointers to what I was stating in another thread. Unless we attract investors into the club with significant funds or we put in place plans to radically overhaul the club (including new ground and new revenue streams) we will slowly but inexorably decline relative to the clubs around us. There is no standing still in football. If we want to stay in this Division then we cannot continue to rely on the mix of picking up transfer bargains and raising young players through the Academy to be sold on. Sooner or later we will have a lean year or two, having sold our better players to keep going, with poor transfers in and a dearth of youngsters coming through to replace those sold. We will go down and then it will be the Devil's own job to get us back. I fervently wish I am mistaken, but looking at the infrastructure and fan potential of the clubs around us, it doesn't bode well.
I'd suggest Charlton aren't much bigger than us. They are living off those Premiership days but their average attendance has been declining since and is little more than ours now, and another poor season will see it drop further! They seem to be splashing the cash, which seems to have convinced him to choose them over us, but whats to say a few signings for us and we look the better prospect!! Them bringing in so many people doesn't guarantee anything. I guess we'll soon see if he has made the right decision, but no doubt in a years time, if Charlton have not done much, he may well be looking for another move
Well, when I look at Charlton, I see a club with an average attendance last season of 15,500 (in League One) with a manager with a certain profile, and who have already added 9 new players to their squad. They may have "drifted" for a couple of season, but do not seem to me to be "drifting" now---on course and steaming ahead I would say. If we are "losing" players and coaching staff to clubs like Charlton, Brighton and Cardiff what does that tell you? That these people are stupid/short-sighted/ money grabbers who cannot see that Watford is a "bigger" club than all these, with a great future ahead of it, if only we can find a left back? Or that the football community knows that Watford is a club that is on the financial bread-line, struggling to remain competitive in this division, and not the first choice for those beyond "stage one" of the football career ladder? Of course the club has good young players coming through, and will attract some ambitious players from lower leagues looking for a higher grade of football, but do be realistic about our appeal to "game ready" players like Wiggins/A.Taylor who have demonstrated potential and are looking to progress a career.
I'm not sure I agree vic- I think the model you describe of picking up transfer bargains and raising young players through the Academy is exactly the way we should be run. If we do that we will be able to budget to run the club at break even and take any profit on player sales as a bonus, that together with the occasional cup run is to me the future for most clubs without a wealthy owner. Many clubs successfully use that model and it works - it is how we got into the Premiership the last twice really as we have never thrown big money at the attempt except following relegation with Aidy - and look where that got us. For each lean spell there is likely to be a fat spell where we over produce and sell on. Until one of us wins the Euromillions and pumps £100m in we must adopt this model
The model that you suggest we must adopt, Leo, is precisely the model we used to follow in the decades that we were in the old Division 3 South, Divisions 3 & 4. We bumbled along then hoping for the odd cup-run, exceptionally talented youngster (Maurice Cook, Dennis Bond & Currie come to mind) and mildly successful season boosting gate receipts to keep us going. I would suggest that the 'most clubs' that you quote could be qualified by 'most clubs in the lower leagues', i.e. Leagues 1 & 2. No we must and can aim higher. I am not for one moment proposing that we throw millions (a la Simpson, Cashton, Boothroyd model) at a mis-guided attempt to get 'back' to the top level. But, to compete with the majority of the clubs in the Championship, we must explore every avenue to increase the Club's income - and if that means getting into bed with a supermarket chain (or similar organisation) to sell the ground and move elsewhere - so be it. After all, clubs like Coventry, Derby, Forest, Middlesboro, Sheff Utd., Sheff Wed., Leeds, Cardiff etc. etc. cannot be relied upon always to appoint poor managers and stay in this division or lower, can they? And there is a limit to how much enjoyment you can get watching us play attractive football to beat Brentford, Gillingham or Accrington Stanley, isn't there?
I wonder if he thought working with a former England left back would improve his game more as well in Chris Powell rather than an unproven manager from his point of view? I doubt they offered more money and he thought as suggested Charlton would be more successful in the future.
Irrespective of the lad's ability how can we ever have considered buying a player called "Rhoys"? Rhys, Ross, Roy yes, but Rhoys!
Sorry Vic - misunderstood you then - totally agree that if we could find a serious commercial partner it would be good - thought you were advocating buying 11 Ellingtons (only joking) Actually though we are different from the old divsion 3/4 days in our Academy which shoud set us apart
