As a Liverpool fan I will choose to focus on my team. The following is a list of players Carrol-35M Henderson-16M Johnson-18M That is a cool 69 million pounds. Of course I have seen many posters trying to justify this price tags but in reality the previous manager (Roy doesn't count)was castigated for apparently wasting money trying to balance the squad. I don't dispute that it is good having local lads or homegrown players but for 22M we got suarez for 21M we got Torres. We also got Aquilani for 18M but we never got to fully appeciate his talents as he was shipped off just as he had gotten rid of his injury problems. Alonso was relatively cheapand we go a cool profit when we sold him. My problem with this price tags is that there is no justification for their talents. England are not a stalwart of youth football, the national team has dissapointed at every tournament since I can remember. So why pay top dollar? Some of the best English players we have had during the last 20 years have been homegrown from the youth set up (Fowler, Gerrard, Owen, Carra etc) and indications are that that trend is not going to stop with the current crop of youngsters coming through. In my opinion I would rather have cheap inexpensive players like Kelly, Flannagan coming through the academy then sprinkle them with top dollar foreign talent who are at the moment technically more gifted than the likes of Henderson for 16M(Not slating the player just my opinion). Thoughts
Its a premium.Its simple economics.Its called ''Supply and demand''. Clubs know their players are highly sought after and will stick massive prices on their players.They have every right to.Liverpool did it when they sold Xabi Alonso to Real Madrid.They knew they were short on Spanish players and therefore they stiffed them.They did so because they knew they could.If Xabi Alonso wasn't Spanish they wouldn't have got anywhere near that amount. I'm 100% sure Liverpool have already whacked £10 million price tags on Martin Kelly,Jack Robinson and John Flanagan if other English clubs come sniffing around them.Gerrard when it comes to English clubs still commands a £25 million fee and he's 31.
It is not a premium on English players, per se, but a premium on signing the assets of other English clubs. Was Berbatov worth £30m? Is Modric worth the price quoted for him? How about the £50m for Torres? English clubs demand more money when selling to other English clubs, as the sale has an immediate potential impact on the selling club; making yourself worse and a potential rival better means you will charge extra for the inconvenience. That said, this gap is now closing. The price of Edin Dzeko (of the renowned youth system of... Bosnia) for £30m and the premium on David Luiz are good examples. How about the prices mentioned for Alexis Sanchez, or Sergio Aguero? Neither are currently giants of the world game. However foreign leagues have begun to work out these players are worth keeping and therefore charge the same premium as UK clubs have been doing.
That is true. However you have to also include the time they have left on their contract.The longer a player has left on his contract,the higher the price.Clubs decide the price depending on how valuable the player is to them to,and work out how much it would cost to replace that player,plus other compensation.The longer the contract ensures that the selling club holds all the cards when it comes to selling. Its all legal due to ''Competition law''.You are allowed to stiff the competition. If clubs decided to accept the first offer,they wouldn't be helping themselves but helping a rival.However by selling to them,you are strengthening them and and youself and weakening them and yourself.You have strengthened yourself by making a lot of money and weakening yourself by losing a player,and you are strengthening the rival by giving them the player,but taking large amounts of money from them.
But you would have to say that English players are overpriced though. Sunderland charged £10 mill for Kenwyn Jones to move to Stoke but Henderson cost £20 eve though Jones was a much more important player for them.
I would agree with that but Henderson has potential and Sunderland would have known that Liverpool had money so the price was alway's going to be high. Jones, well he has two left feet and was going to Stoke.
RVF. However you have to consider how long Jones had left on his contract compared to Henderson. I also made this point last night that I felt Arsenal were justified in putting on such a high fee on Fabregas' head,because it was Barcelona(A Spanish Club) and he's Spanish.They are facing the same thing with Spanish players as English clubs are with English players.
Jones was prob a bad example but I still think English players are overpriced. I know they are needed for the 25 man rule and it is helpful when a player is already settled in England (speaks the language etc) but even so...
If the UEFA rules had not come into play, there would be very little premium on English players. It would be down to potential, length of contract reamining, etc. etc. As others have pointed out Alsonso's price to Real was as much about his nationality as it was the skill and experience that he could bring. Every transfer is fraught with danger. Will the new player (or his family) settle into a new environment, will he be able to adapt to a new style of play, will he be a positive or negative influence in the dressingroom, etc. etc. With English players, a lot of these problems are lessend. Hence the risk should be smaller and hence the price higher. At the top of the Premiership, all of the clubs wishing to buy young English talent are identified as being both rich and needy. In those circumstances a premium is always going to be asked for.
Real paid 30M for Alonso not because they needed Spanish players but because they had seen him as a playmaker with Lassan Diarra as the Destroyer basically what he and Mascha were doing at Liverpool. The amount of spanish players Real sends out on loan are pretty many and Juan Mata who many are asking for to be signed from Valencia was from Real madrid. They have some ery talented youth players too. I don't think its a case of Spanish clubs now paying big for their own players but because there are new forces in the transfer market read city and chelsea who are making it impossible for clubs to sign players at more reasonable prices.
As KPR said above, just reverse, demand and supply. Regardless of the estimation of worth, if there is not enough to go round e price goes up, now if the MU ARS CHE LFC academies were spitting out young English players there wouldn't be such a shortage and then the price would not be so high. The number available at any one time can dictate the price and the spanish have more of a choice so I think thats why it is cheaper, an example would be Alonso, if he was Englsih what would have been his price tag?
Clubs academies can cater for certain positions and not cater for others.This is where the ''supply and demand'' comes in and sometimes its better to go ''foreign'' on certain positions. Example.How many top class English keepers is there playing in the Premiership/I can think of one and thats Joe Hart and he plays for Man City.How many top class English left wingers is there?,I can't think of any.Liverpool may have to go ''foreign'' when it comes to finding a left back,because the quality of English left backs is poor.Ashley Cole is one..However he's over 30. I reckon Liverpool will be the envy of England when Raheem Sterling makes it,as they will have a top class English left winger that cost them peanuts.It'll be similar to when Ryan Giggs made the breakthrough at Man United in 1991,they had something that the rest of England couldn't find,and were willing to pay big money for lesser players. I'll use an example.Chris Kirkland an English keeper cost Liverpool and Houllier the same amount Pepe Reina cost Rafa Benitez.Craig Gordon cost Sunderland £3 million more.When the supply is small the demand and the price goes up.However this can be abused when clubs decide to put rediculous prices on players that aren't up to the standard.However as the selling club they have every right to.The reason being they have calculated the cost to replace such players.
KPR, You also have to take into account the cost of developing young talent. I would hate to think about the true cost of our Academy but its substantial. In addition to the running cost you also have to make allowence for the risk. Of every fresh intake, just how many are going to actually make it to the standard to join the first team squad - let alone progress to become a regular. Somewhere along the line those costs have to be recouped. Now our Aacademy is set up to be a feeder to the first team. There are a number of clubs across Europe who have a totally different business policy. They are set up to develop talent and sell them on - even to the detriment of their first team. Youth to them is just another business opportunity.
I agree totally. However some people don't realise the pressure that both academy players and the coaches have to endure.The academies are in fact conveyor belts. Firstly I'm 100% sure that academy coaches get upset when they see players that they coached get released as they deem that as failure on their part.However its very competitive. I'll show you what I mean.2 years ago,Steven Irwin and Alex Cooper were deemed to be the next two to make the breakthrough in the first team squad.However they never progressed and Jack Robinson and John Flanagan who neither had a lot of reserve experience zoomed past them.The same thing could happen to the likes of Dani Pacheco,Tom Ince,Nathan Eccleston and David Amoo.They could find themselves released because a bunch of 16 year olds progressed quicker than they did. It only starts now for the likes of Andre Wisdom and Conor Coady.They can't for one minute think they have made it,as both have blitzed the under 18s.Andre Wisdom has a year on Conor Coady as Conor Coady will spend his first year with the reserves this coming season.Conor Coady has to move on as the under 18s is likely to be injected by a small few of the starlets from last years under 16s.The less these lads spend in the reserves will ensure they made it. Even Raheem Sterling who has had rave reviews and many consider far too good for the under 18s even though he's only 16 will have to put the same effort into the reserves and spend as little time as possble in it to progress to the next level.However he's got possibly 3 years before any decision will be made on him.If he shows the same vein of form for the reserves as he did for the under 18s,and gets noticed by the first team management,then theres no stopping him.
When did Hodgson balance the squad? He destabilized it by signing ****e players who had no business being here. Meireles was his only decent signing. Jones, Konchesky, Cole & Poulsen were atrocious and made the teams problems worse than they were when he came in. And Man Utd have won enough with a nucleus of homegrown talent to justify the approach of buying mainly homegrown players.
Fabregas did not spend 3 years at a Spanish club between the ages of 15-21. As far as UEFA regulations are concerned, he counts as a home-grown English player not a Spanish one. Regarding Jones, I think the more relevant point is that Sunderland believed (rightly) that they were in pole position to sign Asomoah Gyan and therefore felt Jones was not important to them. The premium does not apply where you are selling to finance the purchase of a better player.
Surlyc. Read the post I made about ''Supply and Demand'' when it comes to English players. I'll show you what I mean.How many top class English keepers is there?One.Joe Hart. Clubs have to invest in areas,where their academies can't produce.Some academies can't produce top class keepers,others defenders,others central midfielders,others wingers,others strikers.However they may be over-loaded in other areas. So thats where the buying starts.So if they are English,the price is high,because the demand is high and the supply is low.If it were the other way round,then the price would be low.
I understand that, KingPepeReina. My point is that the nationality thing is not the main factor. Barcalona signed Mascherano last year because he was better value for money; Fabregas being Spanish brings no extra value as he doesn't count as Spanish under UEFA regulations (discounting any extra shirt sales). Clubs only need 8 "home-grown" players in the 25 man squad, of which only 4 can be from other clubs anyway, which is generally met through squad players. I believe the cost of Henderson is more because of the signing from a team in the same division than due to his nationality. There is a premium on young talent at the moment as much as English talent (note how much Chelsea paid for Jon Obi Mikel, how much United were prepared to pay for De Gea, or how much Man City paid for Boateng).
âItâs not because a player is English and young that we are going to go for him. We go for a player because he ticks all the boxes. Itâs what we need at this time in this window. If a player is English or British or has played in the Premier League weâll look at that over someone who is abroad but it could be any nationality as long as they tick the boxes and is what we need for this window and going forward.â -- Damien Comolli These "technically more gifted than the likes of Henderson for 16M" players would cost more than £16m. What I ask is how long will you give them to settle before whining about the cost of them? Aqua was technically gifted but unsuited to the Premier League, Cisse was fast but didn't work out; Morientes was handsome and...erm...er...Babel was an enigma wrapped in a mystery inside a big girl's blouse; Even Voronin looked handy when he came and was one of the best strikers in the Bundeslige when he went off there but for us he just didn't do it. How can you be happy with players who've done nothing in the Premier League, but judge Henderson who hasn't played a game for us yet?
MG Agreed I can't understand how people see fit to pass judgement on something that hasn't happened yet. You can say "told you so " if you're right, but look a proper tit if you're wrong. Keeps them off the streets I suppose.
