The media seem to take great joy in mentioning our many managers over the last few seasons and although it grates, I have happily defended our 'project' because it has worked. Even those who have constantly talked about it have, in more recent months, conceded that it seems to work because we are still in the Premier League. However, I am having doubts. It seems to me that regardless of who the manager is, nothing changes. That, of course, is the model that has helped us survive but I was under the impression that we wanted to do more than survive. Now, it seems, the fans have fallen into the 'it's not working, let's sack him and move on ' mentality, with calls for Javi to be the next one out the door, and rumours are that they will get their wish. But has he actually done anything wrong? Yes, we have struggled to score, his fault? Did he bring in the strikers who can't score? Yes, we have a shoddy defence at times. Did he bring in the defenders who can't tackle? Our only strength at the moment is in the midfield and for the last few transfer seasons we have brought in countless midfielders. So, my question is...is it down to the manager or is there something fundamentally wrong with recruitment or the model? Discuss!
Important issue raised here H. and central to what is going on at the Vic. I think perhaps the Pozzo plan is flawed in that we are not developing as a squad IMO and that perhaps the impetus of a new coach brings us some success and then we default to the same level as before. Secondly, seems like the coach gives up trying, perhaps knowing they will be moving on. Thirdly they form little relationship with the fans ...and this is very important for a small club like ours Others may know more... but this is my starting response
I'm not sure there is one simple answer but think most of the blame (if you want to call it 'blame') sits with Pozzo and the rest of the board... With regards to the managers (or head coaches), I think it's been a bit good, a bit bad. They did well in getting Silva and he could have been here for 2/3 seasons if Everton had not approached... but seems the way these days. A manager has a short spell of doing well and is courted by a bigger team. Mazzarri was just an error and Flores felt like he wasn't interested towards the end. I think all fans would like us to bring someone in for at least 2/3 seasons, build a rapport with the team and fans and stick around to build something here. I don't think player recruitment helps overly when the manager has little input and is just given a new group of players. I think they have also bought poorly - especially in defense, where it has been built on the cheap. There still needs to be a great deal of strengthening in defense - 4/5 out and 2/3 in - but also we will never get anywhere with the strike force we have. Deeney means well but he's not really a 15 goals a season man at this level, Okaka isn't good enough and Gray doesn't seem to fit. There's also a good chance Doucoure and Richarlison will go so both would need replacing. The squad is also a strange one - 3 seasons in a row it feels like the players just down-tools, especially when they feel safe. Sure we played well in parts against Spurs, but that felt more down to Spurs not at their normal best. why does this group just stop trying...
Seems like some players stop playing for different managers depending on how they get on with them. The level of injuries and consistent changes cannot help team morale and unity. Simply we are just one of many average teams in the league with fairly average players and probably pretty average managers.
I am fairly indifferent to whether Gracia stays or goes. A good manager pays attention to detail and makes his players do the same. Although the "ineptitude" survey in the Guardian was a bit of fun it does show some real points - most of which do not involve the quality of players but whether or not they focus on doing the basics right. A strong manager demands they do - can anyone imagine a Graham Taylor side being so inept?. A manager does not make a save or put the ball in the net and individual instances cannot be laid at his door - but when it happens time and again you question his training and ruthlessness not to accept less than 100% from players. In his favour though the players are not "his" and some openly indicated they were "Silva" men. Richarlison has done nothing for Gracia. The dressing room sees to be dominated by one or two individuals. Not least TD and he is too big for his boots now and is clearly not the quality needed in the Premiership. We need at least two proper defenders and an attacker who scores goals I would ship out three or four players who do not seem up to it and we may lose one or two we would prefer not to - but for decent money. That could be spent bringing in some quality where needed. We have to get our medical team to start funtioning better. Three months on and Gracia is not seeing the wholesale return of players. Another new manager would be likely to be in the mould of what we have seen to date and frankly I cannot see anyone who would be better who would also be prepared to operate in the Pozzo mould. We need a strong manager as I said earlier - and that includes someone to be able to face up to the Pozzos. Silva had that to an extent but showed he was too easily tempted away. If we lose our last two games it would be hard to see how Gracia can survive - a win against Newcastle and maybe he could. Gracia's win percentage is 23% - the lowest of his career and also worse than every other Watford manager since Colin Lee and Dave Bassett - what company to keep ! Yet it also suggests he is capable of better. Given a whole summer, some players he wants, some "trouble" out of the dressing room and a proper pre-season we might improve. That said if we lose 7 out of the first ten games next year where does that leave us. We have only survived these last three years on the early season form. As I say - I am fairly indifferent but if pushed would keep him on.
Good points raised. I´d like to blame no one as we are doing well enough for Watford. No one as an individual. It is a combination of factors. However, with a better transfer dealings and less injuries we could really push on next season if we are still in the league. I agree with Leo, nonplussed if Gracia stays or goes now. It is the hope that kills you.
Someone said after the Spurs game that we have some very talented players, but we didn't have a team. Fair comment in many ways, but why? For much of the season we have been playing with a makeshift defence due to injuries. Our midfield has also had to swap and change just as we have seen what players like Hughes are capable of. Gray has been a major disappointment, that didn't surprise me, and Deeney lost something at the same time. We have had U23 players at some stages on the bench just to make the numbers up, so it can be little surprise that we don't look like a team when the players keep changing from week to week. Silva looked as if he could produce a good team, but that was when he had a full squad to choose from. When the injuries started and he had his head turned there was a very rapid downturn. Gracia was brought in as a quick option, but has said he really has not had the players he would like to play available. For that reason I don't believe we know just what he is capable of. You can go through the individual players and see which ones we think are good enough, and ones we don't think perform. Most of the them have tasted International football at one level or another, but let's face it we are not going to attract players who are with the largest football playing countries. Maybe we look at the top teams in the PL and wish we could have some of their players who cannot be sure of starting every week. We have survived just about I think with what we have had available, and we have very short memories if we think back to pre-Pozzo and some of the dross we had then.
Tend to agree with much of that OFH. If we can sort out the medical side we might see how a manager - any manager - can perform.
We need A couple of defenders Replacements for dacoure and Richarlison who are bound to be bought.. I hope not A proven goal scorer or two A consistent spell with a decent head coach Minimal injuries Away goals Better passing and set pieces A ground upgrade Otherwise I am quite happy [emoji4] Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
Not bothered about a ground upgrade for now - enough progress has been made so it is a nice but not must have. Away goals and better set pieces should be part of having a settled decent head coach. A little bit of discipline from the players would be nice. Agree on defenders and striker. Proven 15-20 goal a year man. Also agree on replacements ofr those two if forced on us.
Yes the ground upgrade is the value added.. But a whole tranche of occasional attendees would be able to go more often plus more season ticket sales etc plus new supporters.. Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk
The way I see it we've already had a ground upgrade tbh. At the moment we can't fill the ground so adding a few extra thousand seats will make us look like the Emirates. Agree we haven't been playing like a team and head coach instability must be partly to blame for that.
Trouble is H...and i can tell you as a cat B home supporter it is almost impossible to get a half decent couple of tickets sitting togethere for a game..... as so many are taken up every time...... For the big matches it is virtually impossible.... so for the more casual supporters it is a non-starter... and remembering we could get in 27+k in the 80s and gates across the league have held firm.... we can def get more in....
For some reason all seater stadiums look deserted when only half full, the old stadiums didn't. When we had a capacity of 28,000 (34,000 at the end of the 60s) there was still an impression of crowd and atmosphere when we only had 15,000 in there. That isn't the case with the modern stadiums. Would we be able to fill a larger stadium at todays prices ? I doubt it. As for casting blame for our present situation - it is a double edged thing. We have been in the Premiership for 3 seasons and have not been in the relegation zone once in that time - but the entertainment has, at times, been appalling. Managers have started well and finished up losing the dressing room - why? Any one of our managers over the last 5 years could have been a better manager in their second year - surely that would have been a better gamble than bringing another rookie in with little experience of English football or the language. At some stage we need to bring stability back in, with a manager who can plan ahead, and perhaps a defence which has played together for some time, and, at least, has a common language. My big fear is that the Pozzo pool of players may just not be good enough - Udinese themselves would not survive in the Premiership.
I maybe wrong, but are not Udinese a small town team like us. Our average attendance for all of our three seasons has been above 20,000, meaning that we are close to capacity. If you look at the ticket office site on the occasional basis as I do, the choice of tickets for the fan who can only get there from time to time is limited to say the least. If there were an additional tier on the SEJ stand I would guess it would be filled very quickly. There is a 3,000 waiting list for season tickets, which would go if the additional tier was built. The pool of players that the Pozzos have provided is getting better for us season by season, but they would have been foolish to throw loads of money at wages etc. until the club was stable. Italian football is in a bit of a mess financially outside the top teams. From their point of view Watford is the more important club to them now, and they maybe have not given enough attention to Udinese. I think many of us struggle with the idea of a coach being given a group of players and being told to weld them into a team. I can see the argument for, but after the GT years where he almost alone brought in the players to suit him, it is hard to see, yet many clubs are heading down that road. Managers/coaches have a very short shelf life these days, mainly due to the financial situation creating fear. There are small clubs around who stick with a manager, but looking at the promotion winning teams throughout the divisions, those clubs are not up there with them. My suspicion is that we would like to recreate the club that we once had, pay on the turnstiles, and stand on the terrace watching our heroes scoring goals for fun. Somehow I think that as with many things we must adjust to life being different.
Well, it seems safe to return to the forum now- I have found it a weird season. The injury list (top of the league for missing player days-and mostly key players) and the MS business have deflected us considerably. However, I think we have a really good squad, not complete but capable of excellent play inALL parts of the pitch. I think the owners are to be congratulated for trying really hard to get us up the table. The state of the ground facilities and do in are getting better. Some of the play is excellent. The results are the odd thing. Here is my explanation. We are 16 points short of where we should be, due to bizarre moments-not poor performances. I think we threw point away as follows- Everton. 2 up cruising. Gomez knocks himself out, then we miss pen. Palarse away and Swansea at home. 9 points. Chelski away-draw . So 10 points. Then Burnley at home ( let alone away)-3 points., b’muff Home, dropped 2as last kick. ‘Uddersfield away, they scored withONLY shot in target while game. 1point-so 16. Therefore, with the injuries and MS situations , our okay over the season searched much better. Jenas reckons we have good squad, but underachieving. I agree. I’m really happy now I ‘ve analysed it, just wish I felt like it more during the hard times!
I thought Silva was the one until his head turned and I still think the same. Gracia although he's managed to keep us up seems to not have the cojones to make the right decisions and indeed seems to make poor substitutions, hasn't played the two strikers that the squad dictates and as such not got any added value from the squad. What's wrong long term? I think Deeneys now past his sell by date and we need a new inspiration to lead us on the pitch. We have no right to premiership status but we do have a right to entertaining football with some cohesion and effort. Onwards and upwards into next season hopefully with some flair, some excitement and 100% commitment from players, staff and supporters pulling together right through to May!!!!
You get cohesion from teams, not from individuals, and you don't get that cohesion by changing managers and players on a yearly basis. I keep hearing about how our squad is stronger than ever but I don't see any evidence of this - how many premiership appearances, and goals, can our squad boast compared to other squads ? We have reached the end of the season and Gracia still does not know what his best available squad is. We can blame injuries until we are blue in the face - why have we brought in so many injury prone players ? It stands to reason that anyone having to adapt to a faster pace of game (compared to the more tactical Italian or Spanish game) is likely to pick up injuries in the process. Our warm up sessions before matches do not inspire confidence - there is a bit of running around, passing, shooting, but very little in the way of stretching exercises. Very little of the types of exercises designed to prevent injury. During the World Cup have a look at the German national squad warming up - it helps that they have a full time Yoga teacher on tour with them.
I would change captain. Nothing against TD, but I don't like forwards being captain as part of being a forward is a degree of selfishness (Kane taking the goal from Eriksen is a prime example). I wouldn't make HG captain as an outfield player as captain makes it clear for the ref who he is supposed to deal with in the cases where he supposed to talk to the captain, rather than just a designated outfield player. My preferences would be Mapps - with the exception of that spell in SE London, has been with us his whole career and has gone from being cover to a regular or Cathcart - one or two of our other defenders could do with some of his calm demeanour.
