Following on from the various threads of the last few weeks, I have been thinking about where we currently sit in the grand scheme of things and where we should be / go from here. Losing away to Everton, despite their team selection, does not seem to be an issue of immediate concern - they're a team that could still pack 3 current England players in their midfield and they made that count. It highlights the options and common sense that Martinez applied - you can rest forwards and defenders if you can pack a midfield full of quality and are likely to have the bulk of possession. Throw in a right back who is setting the Prem alight and stick with Ross Barclay who is young enough to play every game and you're onto a winner. This is a team that has only lost once at home in over a year. Our manager won't get judged on a decent cup run and I can imagine that mentality transmits to the players hence the seeming lack of effort. We say our team is packed full of Premiership class and, perhaps, it is but they're not top Premiership players - which teams would they get into? Some lower ones maybe. That's no slant because we're told that the Championship needs a certain type of professional where perhaps battling determination is the key, with added ability as the key difference over the other battlers when the final reckoning is made of a long season. Are we showing that extra class or fight at the moment? Apparently not but the question is do we have the character to turn a bad run round? Given that it's only a week since we overcame a deficit to win, I'd say yes. We can call ourselves lucky or simply bad but the adage that the table doesn't lie can't apply to everyone but us. Without the flair or panache we'd hope for, we've shown some resolution and consistency that other teams haven't matched (otherwise we would be mid table and the likes of Leicester and Burnley would be significantly ahead of us). A bad run can be turned. In my opinion, the negatives are due to strategy of the club and team. We don't cross the ball early or with any speed and someone needs to explain to our wingers to play smarter. Our possession seems good but a bit more pace in our play would build some momentum. Our transfers need to be more subtle than the papers would have us - buys of over 5 million, say, would seem like another attempt to buy success quickly rather than build success through our very core. We have previously managed to do a decent job of taking punts on players that bigger clubs hesitantly hover around and that would put us in good stead now. Therein lies the quandary - we want to build but also see where we are and where we need to be (bearing in mind new stadium and existing wage demands). Do we have the luxury of time for organic growth? I think Redknapp has does a decent rather than spectacular job although wonder, with age against him, if he's in more of a rush than the board are. In conclusion, we need a stability that we cannot afford to create - more topsy-turfy times for us fans I guess. What are your thoughts about are current position in the grand scheme of things....?
A more reasoned and well-measured assessment of our position Matt. Overall you've raised some good points but I think we all know we've ridden our luck with some poor performances even when we've won games. Others mentioned that in the early part of the season teams lined up against us not to lose but now seem to have realised we've no threat and can be found out quite easily. I really think our main problem is we lack a box to box player who can score the goals to take the pressure off, we are too cagey playing defensively and the lack of goals cranks the pressure up, particularly if we concede. Kevin Nolan was mentioned on another thread, he is the type we lack but his form has declined and bringing him in could prove as disastrous as some of the other fading 'stars'. Oh for a Martin Rowlands, he would've been the difference with this lot. I think to sum it up we are between a rock and a hard place, we either back Harry with several more of these questionable signings in the hope we go up or take a more measured long-term view with a manager who will build the right sort of team over two to three seasons. If I were TF now I'd say to Harry 'We'll only sign under 25s permanently and any older players will be on loan or six month contracts, we either go up or you're out'...
As the season progresses, one can't help thinking back to how our team was moving forward and upward. McLaren had been appointed by Harry to the coaching ranks and the general feedback was that he had fitted in extremely well with one and all. The vibe out of the camp all positive and the players projected much love for each other ............. and then something happened. Out of the blue, McLaren leaves and for one reason or another, whether there was or is any semblance to 'moving on' ............ to the team supposedly losing there way since his departure. I'm certainly not following the gravy train with how McLaren & Derby are now travelling and in truth, never really rated McLaren but I look back now and see his departure as being a turning point to our season. He definitely clicked with the squad, he brought more than something to the table and it has been missing since. It seems our team is lacking 'the love' and the confidence they once took for granted. On the flip side, there is still plenty of the season left to find our 'mojo' and feel the love again.
Losing away to Everton, despite their team selection, does not seem to be an issue of immediate concern - they're a team that could still pack 3 current England players in their midfield and they made that count. can I just say 1 thing bollocks next season we hope to be back in the prem playing teams of this supposed quality every week with the team we have we will get smashed every week I must look up the scores against everton but I don't remember anything this bad I really don't care if we put out a second or third team...we should have 11 players who are willing to put in a shift brazils keeper for **** sake the only reason to get promoted with these players this year is for the tv money followed by the parachute payments
in the prem the results were 1 0 win to us 1 1 1 1 2 0 to them the team we have now 4 0 to them we are **** and if we do make the prem it aint gunna be pretty
Good post Matt. I had a similar conversation with the Everton fan I drove home with. It appears to be the million dollar question: Do we try and buy our way out of it? But potentially lose all team chemistry (not much of that yesterday) or do we hold tight and wait for these supposed superstars who are too good for the championship to finally click? I would personally say one midfielder and one striker and leave it at that. I don't think yesterday was a lack of heart, but more a case of a lack of ability.
Good post Matt, leaving the thread with more questions than answers. Being beaten by Everton is no humiliation, they are a fine team this season and Martinez has been handed on an excellent squad developed over time by Moyes (a blueprint we would do well to follow over the next several years). Our team has been overhauled more times than Cher. We can't keep making wholesale changes everywhere. In all honesty, we do have a decent core, but there is room for improvement without doubt. I believe we need to bring in fresh blood, the likes of Rhodes, Wells are potential stars who are young and hungry to make a name for themselves. There is always room for a seasoned pro with experience to share with younger players and lead a team (I am sure AJ has helped Austin who is a prime example of taking fresh blood and making it work; he has been good value so far). I agree completely that we don't have the right type of attacking midfielder yet and we would do well to put that on our shopping list if we are going to create opportunities and score goals for the forward line we seem to be going for this January. Too many (fans) rubbish our team. I'm not sure if it's high expectation, disappointment at not being 10pts clear, lack of goals or what. But we are where we are in the league and I can only see us building and improving gently from hereon in (and that's the only way now, wholesale changes must be a thing of the past). There will be a lot of additions next year as a number of player contracts expire, wages become free and I hope we use our transfer 'potty' wisely.
Losing 4 0 away to Everton like losing to the MK Dons last season, makes no odds in the grand scheme of things. We rely too heavily on Austin, we know that, I believe that will be rectified second half of the season. We will get stronger and the same mistakes won't be made next time we go up, I hope!
Personally I'm not the slightest bit fussed about losing to Everton yesterday. Good post Matt, as I've already stated on a thread about the transfer window, this is probably Harry & the board's most difficult transfer window to date. We are all agreed that we need another striker to take some of the pressure off of Austin's shoulders, but who does he bring in? We require a striker that will get us out of this league, but to sign any player on a 2, 3 or even 4 year deal Harry would have to be sure that any addition could make the step up should we get promoted. That same logic would also apply to any other position he'd be looking to strengthen. So I'll ask again, what does he do? Loans to the end of the season? Take a huge punt on the likes of Wells, hoping that he could make the step up?
Great post Matt and great reply SW I love reading positive stuff just irks me that there are so many negative posts (SW point) I just don't see why people do this or is it for self fulfilment. Taking Matts point about the crosses, I have been thinking lately that we have had many good wingers in the past Thomas, Sinclair, Sinton just to name 3 and when they got the ball the rest of the team would be breaking their necks to get into to box as there was more often than not an end product, however apart from Austin forever the optimist the others are obviously not convinced there will be an product as our wingers like to cut in and take a shot from distance very predictable! SW your points on building and improving, wages, using funds wisely are spot on. Thank you both very much.
I think we should have got rid of Arry and brought in OGS. Too late there now but if somewhere there is another young, Manager with both his experience and promise we should be going for him. I see WHU are 1-0 down to Forest, if this is a result fat Sam could well be out, Arry off and us in the market like it or not. TF ought to know now that there is no point making massive changes, but 2 or 3 additions/replacements are necessary. Clearly we need a new striker, 2 really. We also need to replace Hoillet who isn't providing the crossses or goals we need (and is injured too much) with someone who does. I think we also need a quick CB. If Carroll goes we also need someone else with quick feet and speed in our midfield. Ideally the new players should all be youngish with the ability/promise to step up in the PL.
It's not rocket science. We can all do what Redknapp is doing and assemble a team of cheap cast offs ready for one last challenge. The true value of a manager is whether he can build a squad that can develop into the team we all want. For that end goal, short-term buys or loans are not the answer. Ask yourselves this question? Do we go for the likes of Carlton Cole, Steven Taylor or Nolan simply because they have been good in the past or do we take a chance on someone like Wells? To me the answer is obvious. the core of our team will be built around the likes of Austin, Onuoha, Matt Phillips and possibly Simpson and Hoilett, although to my way of thinking they both need to step up the mark. Dunne, Clint (bless him) Assou-Ekotto, Barton and players of that age are not the answer. We do need experience but we already have plenty of that. One in each area of the pitch to lead, coax and direct the best out of the youngsters is more than enough. Finally, I seem to remember Redknapp telling us last year that he did not believe in the loan system as a way of developing the squad. Too right. We should not simply be a testing ground for Spurs or Chelsea to develop their youngsters into the finished product. So what's changed apart form the fact that you actually have to justify yourself now to TF before you spend his money? We need to be signing players who are prepared to play for us for the next few years. Olly did it in a different way. He had a knack for signing players who were already, or became, fans of the club. Redknapp needs to strike the right balance now. I'm not particularly interested in him giving a daily sound-bite. Just get on with it.
Well that's at least 5 signings you think we need to make. I agree with the principles of what you've said though. It is important that we can raise the tempo of our football by injecting some pace and desire.
Great post, Matt, prompting thought-provoking responses. You might have entitled this thread, "Thoughts running around Tony Fernandes's head". We need a striker and an attacking midfielder minimum. At the end of the day, it will come down to what quality is in the market over January, loan or full transfer, and how determined TF is to press for promotion this season. Is he looking at the long term or short term game? Young and proven-good-quality costs money and we'll be competing with Prem clubs - as to the alternatives, I would rather see him spend less on young with probable potential, than aging Premiership names. Even if it means we have to compete in the Championship for a season or two more. Given the blood transfusion we had over the summer, we fans may have to accept that sacrifice.
5 should be the maxmum, it's probably too many. I was thinking 2 new strikers and a CB. The other 2 were if we could trade in Hoillet, and if Carroll's loan gets cancelled.
I actually think we need a defensive midfielder as, with Faurlin injured, the only one we have is Henry, who is looking worse every time I see him.
Where are we? Probably ahead of where most of us feared we would be at this point. Our start to the season has done us (the supporters) no favours. A series of ground out, uninspiring, unconvincing 1- 0 victories shifted our expectations from a mid-table berth to hoping for automatic promotion. We have now been handed a reality check from some of the better teams in this division and look like slipping back into a more realistic position. It is worth remembering that Redknapp’s first priority over the summer was to rid the club of as many of our overpaid, underperforming parasites as possible. Although some of these are only away on loan, I don’t think that we could have really hoped for more than he achieved. We now have a squad of good Championship players, let’s not fool ourselves into think these are Premier League players; some maybe good enough, but not many. Are there any reports of even any of the struggling Premier League teams eyeing up our players? So what can be done to prevent this being a wasted season? We certainly need another striker as Johnson’s fitness cannot be relied on, but I think that we would benefit most from a good defensive midfield player, one who will allow our more attacking minded players to break forwards quickly without worrying about their responsibilities at the back, as Shaun Derry did a few years ago. Someone who reads he game well, breaks up our opponents play, always makes himself available and links play together with a minimum of fuss. Charlie’s winner against Doncaster has shown that we can attack at speed, we just need the confidence to do so.
With the exception of strikers I still think we have a squad more than capable of challenging for automatic promotion. Much as I hate to say it (I have always been a Redknapp protagonist) the core of our problems is in regard to tactics: - We just don't get the ball forward quickly enough - No one runs at defenders - We seem incapable of dealing with teams that pressurise the ball (that's just about everyone when it comes to playing QPR) These things can be fixed if HR accepts that he has things wrong to some extent. No sign of that however.
Great minds? Whilst I agree with pretty much all of that, every time I hear an opposing coach, player or pundit describing us, we are called the best team/squad in the division. Is everyone wrong/been given a false impression?
This is an excellent thread and the best I've seen on here in months. A couple of points. McLaren's departure was a serious turning point in our season. The man has incredible club and international coaching experience and I think we are missing him badly. I mentioned this before but I really think there is tangible pressure on the club, owner, manager etc to get us promoted. Many of us choose to turn a blind eye to the tens of millions we've wasted over the last two years. A club our size can't afford this extravagant expenditure. The financial pressure on our club must be huge. I still firmly believe that we are set up wrong and would like to see us revert to 4-4-2. All this talk of one or two new forwards is great but where are we going to play them with only one up front in our current system. Rhodes or Wells wont come to sit on the bench hoping for 10 or 15 minutes here or there. If we are going to continue with one up front then a solid proven player on a six month loan contract is great, otherwise if we spend big, then we have to revert to two up front and the player has to play. I'm not saying that our players aren't putting in a decent shift week in and week out but I don't see too many of our players really bursting a gut. I'll admit I'm hard to please regarding effort, hunger and desire but I don't see the real pit-bull effort consistently. In other words, other teams are working harder than us. I keep saying that age doesn't matter, only attitude and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. We have spent a huge amount of money on two young wingers in Hoilett and Philips and neither are setting the world alight in a division lower than both should be playing. Traore and Suk-Young are two more examples of the fact that young players don't guarantee hunger of success either. What we need more than anything are players that give a s•ite. Finally, I think the balance of our midfield is all wrong. We desperately need a tough as Steel DCM. M'Bia, sadly was the man. Our midfield has no clear shape and nobody to set the tempo. Barton is not the answer and in a 4-4-2, I wouldn't even play him. He gives the ball away to much, doesn't score enough, is not tough enough to play as a DCM and has no pace. We need to buy players that are different to what we have and give us more shape. We can't go spending 8 million on Rhodes or 5 million on wells and have them sitting on the bench. Personally I'd offer WBA a generous loan fee for Long and play him and Austin together upfront. Long would do all the donkey work and run the line and allow Austin some room and energy to do what he does best. I'd also scour the market for a DCM, perhaps even somebody like Rodwell on a six month loan basis.
