The title of this post is subjective I guess because some people might feel we aren't going wrong, but personally myself, even though not in the Hughton out camp, feel that we are not playing as well as we should be and not getting the results that we should be either so I thought I'd take a look at where I think we are missing. Please don't let this be a Hughton in/out thread, everybody's stance on this is well documented now. Injuries: This is the most important factor for me; we have been dreadfully unlucky with injuries this season. We have had long term injuries to three of our best midfielders with moderate spells on the sidelines for Hooper, van Wolfswinkel, Snodgrass, Howson to add to that too. The replacements we have just haven't been good enough and I think that is tough on us. For instance, Redmond isn't good enough yet but Hughton has no alternative but to play him every week because we have nobody else. The only other team here I can think of with similar problems are West Ham who are doing even worse than we are! Woeful set-piece delivery: Set pieces were a very importance source of goals this season, but have dried up for us this season. I did a quick count and I think in the 20 games we have played thus far this season we have won 83 corners. The only goal I recall us scoring from a corner was Leroy Fer against Newcastle, and I really don't think there is a team in the league with a return worse than that is there? We have come close on other occasions too but really when we win a corner it doesn't feel the same as it used to last season. Snodgrass/Garrido/Pilkington delivered the goods this season but haven't played much this season and lacked accuracy when they have. Free kicks haven't been much better either. Typically we have Leroy Fer, Turner, Bassong and Elmander to aim for so we should be doing much better here. Showing too much respect to our opposition/safety first: This one is one of the frustrating aspects of Norwich at present and the only one it is really fair to blame on Hughton. Right now it is keeping us in the league (although we need points on the board before the run in!) but if you look at our worst performances of the season (Man City, Liverpool) it is when we have sat off and just let the opposition run at us. Meanwhile our much better performances (Man Utd etc) have come when we have got right in the faces of the opposition and closed them down quickly. The other aspect of this is just how defensive we are. We play a 4-3-3/4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1 whatever you want to call it but we just don't get enough men forwards to support our forwards. How often does Hooper get on the ball in a good position only to be forced to pass back 20 yards because that is where his nearest teammate is! And how often do we put in a peach of a cross to a good area and there is nobody to attack it. I appreciate we do not have the quality of Man City but I think we could score more goals and play better football without compromising a robust defence. Every game both of our central midfielders stay in front of the defence and don't get forwards which means if our player behind the striker isn't playing well we are completely toothless. Some of our players don't play well together: I really enjoyed watching Martin and Snodgrass reunited on the right flank against United but for some reason Whittaker got the nod for the Palace game when Martin had a blinder? Olsson and Redmond on the left together simply does not work. When Redmond gets the ball he is not looking to let Olsson overlap only to try and skin his full-back and cross/shoot every time (and it is predictable - our opponents have worked this out and Smalling/Marriapa have contained him with ease) which is a complete waste of an attacking LB like Olsson. Redmond doesn't defend but doesn't even come back to receive the ball either - he just stands on the shoulder of his full-back on the halfway line like a kid on FIFA would hoping to outsprint him for an over the top ball. It is like Huckerby/Drury except Redmond is nowhere near as effective an attacker as Hucks and Olsson can't defend like Drury. Olsson and Pilkington looked a very good pairing for the brief period we had it! Snodgrass/Whittaker also doesn't work because Whittaker simply isn't good enough. He is no comfortable in possession and just doesn't link up well with Snodds like Russ can. The net results of this is that neither of our full-backs ever attack the opposition and our wingers can be double marked out the game. Referees: I guess this is part of the parcel of being a small club but we haven't been treated fairly by referees since we arrived in this league, no exception this season. We have lost a fair few points due to the referees getting big decisions wrong (Hull, Palace etc) and yet the only time I can think off where we have been helped by the referee was our away win at Stoke when Leroy Fer got away with a stonewall penalty for brainless pushing. (Sound familiar) No free gifts: If any of you saw Gabby Abonglahor's goal against Sunderland yesterday has there been a time when something like this has happened for us? Simple probability dictates that we should be able to score goals from capitalizing on the opposition's mistakes but pretty much every game this season the opposition centre-half and/or goalkeeper has played an absolute blinder and we haven't been able to create chances/score goals our performances merit. Too often this season we have played well enough to get a win or a draw but not got the results we deserved (relatively few times has the opposite been true). So considering this how much of our current problems can actually be attributed to Hughton; I think a lot of them are completely out his control (injuries, referees, opponents often in good form) and some of them are as much the players fault as his (awful final ball, players not performing) and I would ask if any other manager in the world would be able to do a much better job in these circumstances? I really feel if Hughton has his best XI at his disposal and for once bad luck staying away from him and then we might see the results that we believe we are capable of!
We've had at least one gift this season, the one that got us back into the West Ham game, but agreed we don't see to be the luckiest of teams. But, the more time we spend in the attacking third the more luck we'll get. We can't hold possession high up the pitch well enough.
Injuries - happen to all teams but their effect is magnified on the lesser clubs as we tend to have less strength in depth - Man U lost RvP for a bit but brought in Rooney. Aguerro gets hurt and Dzeko gets the nod for City etc etc. All clubs have "key" players but for the smaller clubs the improtance of the first XI is more significant than for the bigger clubs with deeper squads. Set pieces - has to be down to the coah and manager if we are not putting the ball in the right area or putting our key attackers in the right area to exploit a decent ball in Too much respect for the oppo - I agree with the OP Player combinations - an excellent point and well made IMO. A lot of our success under PL involved getting more than the sum of the parts from the team whereas sometimes I feel that depsite having better players at his disposal CH manages to get less than the sum of the parts from them due to poor player combinations (and a lack of motivational ability on his part in comparison with PL). Refs- smaller teams generally don't get the rub of the green but we seem to have had a few more go against us than in our favour but I reckon were you to ask a supporter of any of the clubs near the bottom they would say the same thing. Free gifts - if we spend most of the match in our own half without the ball then we are not really likely to be in a position to take advantage of any free gifts sent our way and conversely any errors we make are more likely to be pounced upon. It is the same argument that the bigger clubs get more penalties than us - of course they do as they spend a lot more time in our box than we do in theirs and so there is far greater opportunity for a foul to be committed by our defence than won by our attackers. Overall I think that we have some tactical and training issues which CH could address and I do think that we have probably been hit harder than most by injuries but I feel that we should be doing a wee bit better tahan we are even with the OP factors taken into consideration.
Simple. You had got too used to over achieving in the last 4 years when the quality of our squads was not up to what was achieved. Now we are where we should be for the size of our Club and quality of our squads you are disappointed. You expected too much and are looking for a scapegoat.
I'm not really one of the overexpectant fans tbh, as I have said many times I support Hughton and am happy with staying up but sometimes we play games when we can't string three passes together or register a shot on target. That isn't good enough so therefore things aren't perfect at Norwich.
Things are far from perfect, but it is an evolving process. The one thing I don't agree with is the notion of two much respect for the opposition, lots of teams set up to play zonally or with a deep back line against the top teams, even Lambert did it away in certain matches. Playing a higher line might work, but it gives much more space between the lines. it is more about how well each system is played.
I agree my friend but, with respect, if things were perfect we wouldn't be having this debate. Are things perfect at Sunderland, West Ham, Leeds, Leicester, Coventry, Wolves or many other potentially bigger Clubs? Ask their supporters if they think we have too much to moan about!! We are debt free, have spent the last 3 years in the best league in the World, are currently 15th in the table and have every chance of keeping up. I have my doubts about Hughton but what is the point of sacking him unless a better alternative is available. The question was asked and I gave my opinion which I stand by - some people expected too much and are finding it difficult to accept reality.
Dangerous Marsupial is probably one of the most bigoted and over-opinionated posters on here, but people seem not to notice because the dribble spouted from his keyboard is in favour of Hughton rather than against.
Yeah, I think that's really unfair. We all have pretty strong opinions and are prepared to stand up for them. Can we recommend you edit that post RM2 (which is why I haven't responded directly)?
Blimey - that's a bit harsh I feel - we all have a right to express our views on here and some will divide opinion. No need to wade into DM with both barrels ablaze is there Russ eh ??
I also think it's harsh on DM. At least it's a thread about football issues rather than everybody spouting their opinions about Hughton in or out. I certainly think that injuries have been a major factor, but the set-piece point is an interesting one. Did we score that many from corners last year? I seem to recall more from free-kicks. Snods had that excellent one against West Ham, but I can't think of many others. As for the respect for the opposition issue, IMO this may reflect confidence levels. I can't prove it, but success tends to breed confidence. After a win, there is more confidence on the pitch the following week. Teams like Villa and Cardiff had early success and it spilled over into the games that followed. Now both have hit a run of indifferent results and much of that confidence has evaporated. There is also the issue of player form as well. Benteke hasn't scored in his last 9 games and Michu is a shadow of the player he was last year. For City, I would include Snodgrass and Bassong in a similar loss of form, also influenced by injuries. It will be interesting to see how these things play out over the rest of the season.
I think you'll find it's 'drivel', squire, which is precisely what is contained in your post. Not your best effort.
I think you've been a bit tricky, DM. You say please don't turn this into a Hughton in-out thread, but then the last part of your original message basically tells us that almost nothing that is going wrong is Hughton's fault. I agree with you, though, that the arguments about Hughton have got boring, we've all said what we feel and think, and there's nothing else to do now but wait and see what happens. For me the key thing is that almost every player has played well below his potential this season. I am not going to speculate about cause, because that takes us back into the debates about Hughton, but this is certainly true. Snodgrass and Bassong have been shadows of the giants they were last season, Ruddy is unusually erratic, Russell Martin has dropped in and out of form, Fer and Olsson are looking shaky now after excellent debut periods, Hooper finally seems to be coming good but it's taken a long time, Hoolahan is in and out, Johnson has been very poor until recently, RvW has stuttered because of injury - the list is almost endless. Perhaps Howson and Turner are the only ones who have come anywhere near their best. I personally think we have quite a good squad now, and one which is better on paper than several of the other teams around us. But we still need everyone to be playing to their absolute maximum capability - the difference is still marginal. We need to be doing what Hull are doing at the moment, which mimics us in our first season up. Whether this is possible after the first heady season is over, I have no idea.
My personal opinion is that Hughton sets a team out to be solid professional premier league players giving an honest 7/10 account of themselves every week. The victory is achieved from a piece of individual talent gaining us a goal, last season we had snoddy scoring, a quality big guy up front who grabbed a few and especially during the 10 game run wes running the show. This season we haven't had a collective solidity in performance level from the team, except howson and turner who I think have been excellent this year, often covering for team mates and dragging us through in certain situations the team has been let down. If our overall performance as a core unit had been better, the input from the standout games from key players such as hooper and fer would be greater appreciated. That being said Fer has scored 2 crucial goals. In addition we've also been blessed with goals from midfield particularly Pilkington in our first season and snodgrass last year, we've been missing that greatly because it breeds confidence in the wingers who are vital to our team. The lack of performance to allow a good game be a winning contribution has cost us the chance to build momentum. I think the injuries have been most hit on Hughtons subs bench choices, he has had a distinct lack of game changers available to him this season to change things up. How much better does Redmond look coming off the bench to replace pilkington running at tired legs than Javi garrido on the bench.... Once our squad has its full quota back I'm sure we can go on a little run and put a little distance between us and the drop zone. I just sincerely hope Hughton rests a lot of the players who have played a lot recently. They looked ragged over the christmas period. Whatever people say about Fulham losing 6-0 to Hull, Mulensteen rested key players that game and they ended up winning 2/3 but losing to Hull by 6. I know i'd take one pummelling but 2 wins out of 3!
I actually am on the fence about CH! What I really would like to know is what do we guess CH himself thinks! Does he think he (we) should be doing better, are about where we should be or given our circumstances (injuries, luck, referees etc.) we have done well to be out of the bottom three and only a few points off the top half? Does he think he should go or does he 'know' getting a replacement for him is difficult/pointless? I say this because I have read all of these different views from many of you on this board. But what Hughton himself thinks might be key to the rest of the season!
