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What's the real reasons England underachieve?

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Weswilko, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Weswilko

    Weswilko Member

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    If you look at other top international sides like Germany,portugal even holland, they not full of world class players. Obviously I'm not saying there no good they all have a few top players but when you compare the team on paper, England have an amazing team.

    The likes of Terry n Ferdinand arguably two of the best cb's in the world.
    Ashley cole maybe the best lb in the world. New defenders like jones smalling Cahill etc
    There's a wealth of top draw midfield talent. Lampard and gerrard maybe getting into the twilight of their careers but both still quality then wilshere will only get better Scott Parker is another fantastic cm
    Wingers like walcott with pace to rip anyone to shreds same for Aaron Lennon.
    Adam Johnson James Milner and Ashley young who now seems to have a wonderful understanding with England's talisman Wayne Rooney.
    Up front Darren bent who's goals/games ratio speaks for itself. (from a personal point of view last night micheal Owen proved he should still turn out for England. 11 goals in 12 starts). More young strikers coming through aswel Daniel Sturridge and wellbeck.

    So with players like these why do England always fail?
    Pressure?
    Managers?
    Players attitudes towards international football?

    Uraguay managed to battle through at the world cup and you can tell it means so much but I just don't see that with England.
    Any thoughts???
     
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  2. TheRossi

    TheRossi New Member

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    Leading Premier League clubs such as Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea want to replicate the hothouse intensity of the Royal Ballet School and Yehudi Menuhin Music School, even introducing a boarding-school system so they can work more closely with the nation’s most gifted schoolboys.

    England are painfully behind other nations in youth development; Barcelona’s team of all the talents visit Arsenal on Wednesday with up to seven home-grown products, such as Xavi, Pedro and Andrés Iniesta, in their starting line-up.

    “Barcelona can achieve a lot because they have four times as much money as our clubs because of individual TV selling rights and they can pool young talent nationally,” said Richard Scudamore, the Premier League’s chief executive, on Monday.

    The second point is one he seeks to copy with the Premier League’s Elite Player Performance Plan, which splits clubs into four categories of excellence from the 2012-13 season. This will give leading clubs, those who qualify for category one, access to the country’s top prospects and, most significantly, trebling the time spent working on their skills.

    “This is a supertanker that’s very difficult to stop now,” said Scudamore of the Premier League’s blueprint for better dream factories. “It’s a strong force going in a positive direction.”

    The data demands urgent action be taken.

    On average, a young player in Spain will have enjoyed 4,880 hours contact time with an elite club such as Barcelona from the ages of nine to 21. Holland and France pour even more time into coaching youngsters, 5,940 hours and 5,740 hours respectively. An English tyro will have only 3,760.

    Under the FA’s Charter for Quality introduced in 1997, Premier League clubs are permitted three hours’ contact time a week with nine to 11 year-olds, those progressing through what Dennis Bergkamp calls the “golden years of learning”.

    In the 12-16 age group, English contenders are limited to five hours a week while those at Bergkamp’s Ajax have 10-12. Wonder why England struggle? Do the maths.

    “Our boys are disadvantaged compared to European boys, where they have full-time, well paid coaches,” said the Premier League’s head of youth, Jed Roddy. “We’ve made it very easy for managers to resource their clubs from abroad.”

    The Premier League is taking inspiration from the world of music and dance. At the Menuhin music school, each budding virtuoso has 10,840 hours of contact time in their development years, three times the football figure. Pupils at the Royal Ballet receive 10,000 hours’ tuition.

    The supply line to England needs improving and Roddy believes that “it could be 10 years before the benefits are fully felt”. Although talents such as Jack Wilshere are emerging, the crisis in youth development is not simply related to technical deficiencies.

    Some academy directors despair at the declining fitness levels of English youth, particularly in the under-resourced state sector. Everton have even begun sending coaches into primary schools.

    Premier League plans coincide with a new FA coaching strategy, focusing more on small-sided games, a philosophy that the more enlightened clubs, such as United, have long advocated. The FA will help coach the coaches at their National Football Centre at Burton, so providing the elite with more specialist, age-appropriate coaches.

    Most controversially, Premier League clubs have even discussed the possibility of bridging the gap between academy and first-team by fielding teams in the Football League. However, it was deemed “too radical” by Scudamore and “offensive” by Andy Williamson, the Football League’s chief operating officer.

    Overall, the Premier League’s pursuit of excellence should be applauded, but the elite body must ensure the Football League is not badly damaged by what could be deemed a land grab. Upstairs must look after downstairs.

    Of the 23 England players who travelled to Copenhagen last week, 13 spent part or all of their development years at Football League clubs. Two others, Wilshere (Luton Town) and David Stockdale (York City), also benefited briefly. “There’s a big risk for England if we get cut away,” said Greg Clarke, the chairman of the Football League.

    Under the new Elite Player Performance Plan, some of those nurtured at Clarke’s clubs will migrate even earlier to the elite. So compensation levels must be properly weighted to safeguard smaller clubs’ survivals. “But if the player is too expensive, there’ll be an incentive to go abroad,” warned Scudamore.

    Football League fears are real. Clarke hosts a series of chairman dinners with the leading lights at his 72 clubs. “They tell me the No 1 or No 2 issue is youth development and some say they can’t stay in business if it goes,” Clarke said. “We are concerned that 30 to 40 clubs would give up youth development.”

    As usual in football, the tension comes down to money. “Looking at the Deloittes figures into Premier League club accounts, the amounts [on compensation] are not exactly going to break the bank,” Clarke said. “The £50 million Chelsea spent on Fernando Torres is equal to the cost of running all Football League youth development for a year – with £10 million spare.”

    Clarke also pointed to the human cost. “We mustn’t screw up kids’ lives,” Clarke said. “One minute they think they are going to be the next Wayne Rooney, the next they are being released by a Premier League club and dumped back on their council estate. Let’s develop the hell out of our kids but let’s not sacrifice them on the altar of football efficiency.”

    For all the sympathy with any 16 year-old released by a Premier League club, he can still rebuild his career at one of Clarke’s clubs.

    English football must accept the law of the jungle if England are to become powerful again.
     
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  3. Foredeckdave

    Foredeckdave Music Thread Manager

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    'Cause their no bloody good!
     
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  4. robin_van_ fiberglass

    robin_van_ fiberglass Active Member

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    A combination of too much pressure and our players not being suited that well to international football. The pressure is due to a combination of overly high expectations on the team, the general trend that it is fashionable to call our team **** and most of all sections of the media being happy for us to fail because it creates a bigger story.
     
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  5. AdamBanana20

    AdamBanana20 New Member

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    Brazil don't struggle when they play in the world cup.
     
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  6. Grizzly

    Grizzly Active Member

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    Lack of £200k a week cheques.....
     
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  7. Depay Sound

    Depay Sound Well-Known Member

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    Walcott is rubbish.
     
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  8. Kyle?

    Kyle? New Member

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    **** off, ***gott.
     
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  9. Robby202

    Robby202 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to do with sub standard ****ty foriegn manager who picked out of form players for a world cup who were so badly out of form, confidence and injury ridden wouldn't have anything to do with it would it? <laugh>
     
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  10. Lucaaas

    Lucaaas Well-Known Member

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    <yikes> Two goals against a Leeds side who are notoriously poor at the back and he's England material. I suppose there's your answer.
     
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  11. Robby202

    Robby202 Well-Known Member

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    ****ing clear plagerism http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/8324495/Henry-Winter-Premier-Leagues-elite-plan-radical-overhaul-of-academy-system-to-help-top-schoolboy-talent.html

    Dickhead:emoticon-0112-wonde
     
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  12. Jonesey

    Jonesey Well-Known Member

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  13. bigmc

    bigmc New Member

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    England are poor at international level because most of the players are overpaid prima donnas! Take the example of Terry and Ferdinand above, they may well be good in the premiership where they can get away with booting, elbowing, pushing etc. but on the international stage where players are more shrewd and will get them booked/sent off/penalty awarded they haven't got a clue. Add this to the fact most of our team aare chosen on their name rather than their performances, look at Gerrard and Lampard- barely played a great game for England yet are always picked even when other players are in a rich vein of form and fitter! Beckham wouldn't have made as many appearances as he did for England in another national shirt either let alone be made captain. Until the England team is chosen on current form and fitness they're going nowhere.
     
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  14. MrWright!

    MrWright! Active Member

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    It's all Arsene Wengers fault!
    with all these foreign players hes ruining english football!!

    Like Jackeski Wilsznirezi
    Kiereiii gibbards
    Theolopalous Wallcoot

    BURN ARSENE AT THE STEAK!!

    and chips.
     
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  15. enigma

    enigma Well-Known Member

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    The answer as to why England are under achievers lies in your very own post, believing things like you have a wealth of top drawer midfield talent and the two best CBs in the world are English. And what exactly draws you to these conclusions? Because the media tell you? Or because some pundit who is being paid to talk about England tells you? I really believe that rooney is the only world class player England has.

    Every tournament I can remember since euro 96 all we hear is how England have a great team and are going to win, it is this attitude that is why you don't achieve anything, you haven't under achieved, you have just reached as far as your good enough to reach, even the players arrogance is staggering, just accept that your an average side instead of all this rubbish about how you have the best players in the world and have some divine right to win something. Would any of your players get into the Spain squad? Very few if any.
     
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  16. good kop red kop

    good kop red kop Active Member

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    #16
  17. Skylarker

    Skylarker PL High Commissioner

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    The English bias says we have world class players - Realistically we don't.

    World class players are people like: Messi, Ronaldo, Vidic, Xavi, Iniesta, Villa, Silva etc..

    We simply don't have that caliber of player to be a successful national team. People need to wake up and realise we're a second rate team in comparison to the 'top' teams.
     
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  18. theHotHead

    theHotHead New Member

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    England DONT under achieve, its because planks like you and the media think England are better than they actually are.

    DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE.

    English players are not technically good enough, International football is a different beast altogether. Much slower paced. England do not know how to play that game and so will always get found out against any decent team.

    Until English football stops being the hoof fest that it is, until the players are comfortable on the ball and don't treat it like a hot potato, until players are happy to receive the ball when they have "man on", England will be kack, simples.
     
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  19. Jason Hudson

    Jason Hudson Member

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    You don't have to have the best players to win the big games.

    Brazil have one of the most talented pool of players but their last WC win was in 2002. Haven't done much on the World Cup stage since. Even Spain don't have a lot of brilliant players. Xavi, Iniesta, Casillas, Torres on his day. Granted they have many good players, but what is key is knowing your roles and applying the right tactics to get the best out of the players.

    Far too long England have had the talent but just used it in the wrong way. Technically a front line of Rooney and Owen should be superb. A midfield combination of Hargreaves and Gerrard should have been top notch. Ferdinand and Terry are two of the best in the world. It's not a question of talent, it's the tactics to get the best out of them.

    We are far too hung up on trying to play like Spain. They can only play like that because they have the players to do so. England should be looking for players that can play at a high tempo and play with lots of width. Something like United have been the best at.
     
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  20. Skylarker

    Skylarker PL High Commissioner

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    Yeah that's pretty obvious.

    But a couple of world class match winners in a team helps - We don't have any of those. Some might say Rooney and Gerrard, but they are both far to inconsistent on the world stage.

    Basically we've had **** managers and a **** squad for too many years now. People say we've under achieved, I would personally say we've over achieved.

    Your point about Brazil is fair enough, but have you considered Dunga completely changed their approach recently and before that they were nowhere near the old team of Brazilian superstars of the 70's and 80's. Now Spain are the dominant team and they have at least 6 world class pure quality players in their team.

    We are well short of the quality needed for a manger to work with and win a major trophy.
     
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