Be gentle, this my first post!! I was just wondering, with the lack of trophies in the last 7 years, many Arsenal fans have become moaners and I wondered what would change that. If we beat AC Milan 5-0 and went on to win the Champions League it would be our best trophy win and would be remembered forever but this season would still have been filled with disappointment and booing, etc. Should we just go back to appreciating that we are one of the best teams in England and a highly ranked one in Europe and make the most of that? We will win something one day and we want to be in a good place when that happens. At the moment if we win something would it be a relief rather than a joyful occasion?
Many of us are 'moaners' as you put it simply because we see no end to the downhill path followed by Wenger (and possibly the Board's attitude). So many things have been going badly for us - when often the world outside Wenger's mind can clearly see what needs addressing. All we do is 'too little too late' tinkering, with signings, tactics etc We criticize because we badly want our fortunes to turn round..
FIRST POST? WELCOME TO THE FORUM! And in answer to your question i think what would stop me moaning certainly is the realisation by key personnel at arsenal that this seven year experiment of wengers has run its course and has not been a great success. time to move on and time to change. We play tippy tappy football until we get into the opponents half and then just stall more often than not, we have no grit and determination and certainly no one on the pitch who i would call an out and out leader. 11 men from stevange demonstrated justy what can happen when you do have a bit of grit and determination. Can you honestly see any of say the top six teams staying with a manager who has not won them a single thing since 2005? thats not to say im being belligerent of Mr Wenger and all he has done for us, and he has done a lot that should never be forgotten. But even in his post match interviews these days he seems more and more withdrawn from reality. this to me suggests a man rapidly running out excuses.
its easy to change personnel but harder to improve the personnel as you say look at chelsea they sack carlo for not winning anything in one season after he won the double in his first then they replace him with the "new special one" good idea aint it one track mind a lot on here and i dont think they will ever stop moaning unless we win every game and every trophy
Big Welcome Henry's Cat. For a cat you do type well!! Well if we did beat ACM and go on to win the CL as unlikely as that may seem given our form then it would give all fans much to rejoice. However the path to this has been riddled with disappointments borne of poor management. I don't think anyone would successfully argue that over the past 12 months our club has been in a mode of accelerated decline. Nothing offers more evidence than the evidence itself being our form. If you had had the opportunity to follow previous discussions here you will have noted that in the run-in to the close of our last season we picked up just 12 points out of a possible 33. That's 12 points in 11 games in the EPL. This followed our defeat in the Carling Cup Final to a team that was eventually relegated. Then at the beginning of this season we picked up but 7 point from the first 7 games and the record of the most recent run in the EPL has been 8 points from 8 games. Not much to cheer an Arsenal fan I'm sure you'll agree and one allowed to happen because we have not learned our lessons of the past, managed our resources better and through all of this, Arsene seems powerless to motivate the team and change the course of events. At present we may be still clinging onto this position of praise and honour but if this form of ours or indeed lack of it should continue, it will be an honour that is in our past just as the triumphs have been in our past. Well we will only win something if we are equipped to do so, both in manpower and mental strength. As it is we are far from that and if we do not retain RvP or bring in appropriate reinforcements to back him or replace him should he leave then we will have never been further from winning anything in all of these past 15 years. Sorry to have to paint such a picture but it is what it is. Hope to be able to chat more with you.
Welcome Henry's cat. The answer is that nothing will ever stop some of the moaners. It is always easier to look for the negatives than to highlight any positives. True supporters 'support' through thick and thin.
Welcome Henry's Cat I remember you from old BBC 606 - always a good and reasoned poster. Whilst I appreciate the frustrations at the moment, personally I think we have too much moaning going on around our club. I appreciate that we're not doing nearly as well as the expectations we've set in the past, but I think there's little recognition of just how difficult that is to achieve in the modern game. I've heard views ranging from the moderate exasperated frustrations of Wenger supporters to the downright ridiculous rantings of those who clamour for completely unrealistic outcomes. Perceptions of extreme situations nearly always generate knee jerk solutions, but rarely do they rectify the problems. What's really needed in situations like this is a pragmatic head, someone who keeps calm whilst those around them are panicking. We need to change things at our club, that's clear. But it needs to be a reasoned and practical approach, rather than reacting to an emotional outburst and making ill informed decisions. Objectivity is hard to attain when you've got so much emotional investment in your club, but it's what's needed to really affect positive change. I don't agree with sacking Wenger, who realistically would we replace him with who could do an instantly better job ? I think it would plunge our club into a crisis and would create a mess that we might never recover from if we took this route. For me, I think the board need to recognise that top players now demand big transfer fees and top wages and I think they need to back Wenger financially to be able to rebuild this team. We have a solid core of good young players, but they need top quality players around them to help them flourish, otherwise I fear that they will become disillusioned and seek pastures elsewhere. If we want players like Hazard and Goetze, then we need to be prepared to pay for them and their wages. This is going to take a change of ideology from the board and I think Kronke might need to invest some of his wealth into the squad to achieve it. I also think our coaching staff need a shake up. It's likely that Pat Rice will retire, I'd like to see Steve Bould promoted to assistant if that happens, so that he can work with the defensive side of the game and give the players that much needed 'never say die' attitude that we do lack. No disrespect to Rice, he's been a loyal servant. But I think Bould is more in touch with the modern game and his link to what is needed to win games in the premier league is that much fresher. Also, perhaps more on a wish list than anything, would be to see Hill-Wood retire and David Dein brought back on the board. Dein is Wenger's right hand man, even today (although he does it from the sidelines) Since he left, we've been inept in the transfer market and we've struggled to keep our best players. I think Wenger has been forced into dealing with issues around the board, our finances, our ideology, transfer negotiations / Public relations etc, when he should be left to concentrate on football matters - the former is a job for Dein, which he proved to be more that adept at in the past. Finally, I'd like to see our fans showing a bit more support. I can understand the frustrations, but I think it's our role to get behind the players and the manager and give them a lift. The concept of the 12th man seems lost on us sometimes and we appear to be too quick to judge and condem and to get on the backs of players when they have a bad game. I think this just erodes confidence further and make players fearful. We need to applaud our players when they shoot and miss, not groan at them for wasting a chance. Players need to take risks in their game and try, even when it doesn't come off for them. It doesn't mean they should be berated for doing so and then endlessly criticised, that just stifles them and makes them even more fearful. If we want the best from our players, we need to encourage them and that means even when they are not doing well in my book.
To which one could add too that true supporters try to highlight and find a solution for our problems, not just blindly accept them.
And yes. Things arent that bad. Its the same thing with blackburn fans getting berated for saying keen out when he has done ok for them (out of the bottom 3 is basically good enough for them). Its the direction of the club. Blackburn was going the wrong way...hence the keen out chants. We are going the wrong way too. The boring football we now play, the decline over previous years, the record profits every year (and yet no money spent ever), the selling of our best players. This is why people are annoyed. Not because we are 4th in the league. Its where we are heading not where we are that is worrying.
You think that is rude? Suggesting supporters 'support' their club is a bad thing in your eyes? Really? Ok Robin, I will swallow that if you can show me how a string of negative bitchfests on an internet forum are part of the solution? I await your answer with baited breath
in ansa to the original question ... wenger resigning would stop people moaning ... it would start another set moaning mind but then again those guys have had years perfecting it under the yoda type leadership of "the whinge" if we go behind early v spurs or losing at half time the crowd must ... must resist the temptation to boo and slag off wenger and the players ... i can't see it happening if we are losing the crowd will more of less turn on them ... this wont help at all "during the game" ... the facts are as supporters our job in the crowd sunday is to support come hell or high water .... if we play poorly go off alarming at the end in the pub at home etc but we all know we serve no positive purporse to dig them out "during" a game .... the fact the water bottle kicking champion of france sees fit to tell me this narks big time .... wum on here affect nothing ... wum and moaning fans during the game inside the ground on match day ... well i think they do negativly affect things regardless of the lack of quality in our players.
Well to begin with friend, we need to look at our defence. It is no longer the solid impenetrable fortress that Arsene inherited. Arsene would like us to play the beautiful game that Barcelona does and to a great extent we did that. However in the absence of experience backing the youth, our program usually ground to a halt come February. So to begin with, we need a defensive strategy, one that is not entirely different to the one Barcelona employs, where three defenders home in on and challenge the opponent who has the ball, closing down on him and the opportunities that are open to our rivals. Then our midfield is badly in need of creativity. WIth JW sidelined all season and Arsene being slow to replace the departing duo of Fabregas and Nasri, we were on the backfoot right from the start. It isn't as though we didn't know they were likely to leave. Certainly in the case of our former captain, this was very much on the cards. Yet Arsene dithered on sourcing and sealing the deals on replacements. It is offered by the management that we couldn't get the players because the players were not available. I find it difficult to accept because the scouting team we have is as good as any I gather and more to the point, other teams get their players so why not Arsenal? Up front, our current captain had along with others suggested taking on a secondary role. Perhaps this alternative may work and our firepower not solely reliant on RvP himself. FUrthermore, players are expected under Arsene's program to play out of position. How effective is that I wonder? On another note, Arsene it is said is responsible for the crazy wages structure of the team. For the amount we spend, the return is low and while we always claim not to be able to afford paying the salaries demanded by key and prospective players we waste an awful lot of money paying a bunch of deadwood in this team, players which incidentally we have trouble moving on. WHile not all our ills are of Arsene's making there are areas of responsibility which are solely his and this team that we have now is of his own making. They are not nearly adequate for the purposes of winning, are they? Arsene brought us to this and in respect of this team which he has created, it now seems too that he is unable to motivate them nor supply the leadership required to pick the players up when their heads are down. These are just some of the important problems he has to address. SOlutions are out there but Arsene only wants to do it his way and his way with his team has yielded nothing. TTFN
piskie .,... as ive said before .. we all support arsenal here (i hope) ... but where we differ is if we trot out the same poor performance sunday and lose wenger should not be free of criticism .. after the game .... we all know large sections of our home matchs are tourists and wont make any noise win or lose some are hard core die hards and will not boo openly .. or cheer innaely if we lose .. some and its getting larger boo and moan at half time ... its not doing any good then .. after 90 mins we need to join them so people know were not happy but please please not during the game.
and repeating this and some of the other negative stuff on this forum over and over and over again is a solution? I think you are deluded if you honestly believe that my friend.
