Hi Volks, All this talk of proper clubs.. yours aint mine is, yadda yadda. So why not try to define the fundamental elements that make up a "Proper club" A lot of this history or finances rubbish has been thrown around, and lately under the yanks Liverpool have not been what you might call a properly run club, but what does "a proper club" even mean? 1. Financial prudence planning & stability I would say is the first as without this it is a failure from the start. 2. Clubs footballing philosophy, one it maintains like Barca or Arsenal regardless of results. I am sure some of you have a few more or some corrections of the above
In my opinion, a proper club is one that: 1. Is self financing over the long term (five years or more), i.e. doesn't need its owners to put money in on a regular basis to cover losses / buy players 2. Has a strong core of fans that are loyal to the club, not just the success it enjoys. A proper club would keep many of its supporters even if it was relegated or went a long period of time without success 3. Has fans that stand by the players and manager through difficult times. They don't worship a manager / player one week and turn on them the next 4. Has a core of players that are either homegrown or have been with the club for a long period of time. A proper club doesn't ship out its best youngsters only to replace them with slightly better purchases 5. Has a strong footballing philosophy, and primarily looks to win matches rather than just avoid defeat 6. Has some traditions and is proud of them. The club doesn't need to have been super successful, but needs to have some idea of where it came from, keeping former players and staff involved with the running of the club 7. Is one where the club is always be more important than any of its players 8. Treats its players right, i.e. stands by them when they are injured and doesn't try to sell them behind their backs
Some good points there swarbs, and some stealth potshots too maybe No 8 is an interesting one and 7 is becomming more difficult to maintain as the cash pulling power of players grows they realise they are a financial asset as much as a footballing one to the club. On 8 again. Some clubs do shaft players and I wasn't happy how Robbie Keane was trreated even if the manager didn't want him, from a purely management view he was a resource to be used in an area where we were very short staffed and still he was treated in that manner, not fkn good at all, especially when he is an actual Liverpool supporter, well maybe not any more. As for results driven, it has kind of ruined the quality of football somewhat, winning comes first, style and entertainment for most clubs come second. I want my club to be successful but I also don't want to watch dross 1 0 wins for game after game, so there is a balance to be had in developing a team and their style of play, I don't think it is fair to fans and results driven football has ruined grass roots foorball in ENgland Ireland Scotland and Wales. Some contrast on Results driven v Entertainment. There have been seasons where Liverpool won the league which were not as exciting as the Fernando's first season when Masc Xabi n co were with the club, the entertainment that season was really thrilling stuff indeed, the owning of all hte top sides with Arsenal lucky twiice to escape defeat for a 8 out of 8 whitewash in the top 4 playoff. 4 4 at the bridge what a game. What a season, I thinkI aged by a few years that year, so did some United fans It was a far better season than say 2005 when Liverpool actually won the CL, so results can sometimes take a back seat to entertainment and not be disappointing as I certainly was not disappointed at the end of the season with the performance that year by the club.
No potshots intended, honest. You could criticise United under some of those points to be honest, particularly after the Rooney debacle and the whole green and gold thing. For number 8 I was talking about when clubs don't treat their long serving players well. I was always struck by how Wenger sold Merson to Middlesborough. When Merson said he didn't want to leave Arsenal, Wenger told him ã5 million was a lot of money for a 30 year old so they accepted the bid. Seemed a bit harsh after 12 years of service. Although I'm not sure if Merson's account is strictly accurate... Number 7 is very difficult to achieve, particularly at clubs where the players seem to be more valued than the team. I think the fans have a lot of sway here - if a player holds the club to ransom will they claim the club didn't treat the player right or turn on the player. I agree that if you're purely focused on results it gets pretty boring, but I don't mean that kind of mentality. I mean a mentality that sets out to win every game, and try to win it well, even if that means getting embarrassed a few times along the way. Or maybe I'm just biased as a United fan and looking for positives in our recent humbling But I agree with your example of 08/09 - it's a lot more exciting when you can't predict how a game unfolds. Even our defeat against Barca in Rome wasn't too hard to take, cos we did come out and attack them, and create more chances and have more possession against them than most teams have done in the last three seasons. Even when we were 1-0 down, showed no signs of scoring and were basically inferior to them all over the pitch we still tried to attack rather than just fishing for counter attacks and trying not to concede again. I'd much rather lose like that than Chelsea did in the semi final - defending like mad with 36% possession at home and looking for penalties wherever they could. Yes, they should have had two penalties, but it's hard to say it would have been a deserved victory after they played so negatively.
Great points Swarbs. In other words neither Chelsea or Man City are proper clubs,and Liverpool,Arsenal and Man United are.
Not only should they have cheerleaders,the cheerleaders should be blonde,have massive jugs and be wearing as little as possible.