I hear this mentioned from time to time and get the impression we don't count? Even if we did you know what No I know we can't compete with certain clubs in revenue and transfer spending. Personally to me a top 4 club is one of the 4 teams who qualified in the top 4 last season! Even if we have to sell the odd player but buy in quality replacements. Strong finances help but it's the right players that do all the work on the pitch. Sorry for the rant! Bored...
A top 4 club is probably a club that occupies top4 position on the table regularly in a longer period of time.
I think time was when a club occupied a top 4 position. There was no established top 4 club. Nobody had a preconceived idea because all the clubs in the division were relatively close, bar Liverpool perhaps. The critical point was turned when First Division clubs voted to keep all the home league game receipts to themselves, which meant that those with the largest grounds and the largest catchment area had a head start over everyone else. Then the Premier League came about, and shortly after SKY came on the scene, with their wall-to-wall coverage, and those who could spend more to be successful just became more successful. Liverpool missed an enormous trick back then, which they still haven't really recovered from despite their Champions League triumphs this century. So now a top 4 club is a collection of those who are deemed to be capable of being there based on their resources and media impact. It has little to do with traditional success, which for instance, is why Man City are one and Aston Villa are not.
All of the above is spot on but I don't think it explains the Villa Man City thing. One of them would barely make top 4 in the Championship and thats not to do with resources or media impact. Good post though. Really, when sport becomes more about money than anything else it does cease in many ways to be a sport. Hopefully, we can show that good coaching and a strong ethos can still be important and successful.
Perhaps not. What I meant to illustrate was that traditional records of success are no guarantee to be considered a big/top4 club. Aston Villa's traditional success is way more than Man City's. In fact, bigger than most clubs.
Current best prices (excluding betfair) are: City: 1/66 Arsenal 1/2 Utd 1/2 Saints 2/1 Spurs 7/2 Pool 11/2 http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/top-4-finish
Wouldn't be tempted by any of those prices. Not as a backer anyway. But I'd lay Liverpool at that price. 6.6 to lay on Betfair and I reckon your money would be safe, though it does mean tying it up for 3 months. The other prices are about right I think, though I might also be tempted to take on Man utd. Might just have a look at their run in. Oh, and the answer to the OP is, we are, currently. Long way to go yet though.
http://www.givemesport.com/545006-southampton-winner-shows-character-of-a-top-side?autoplay=on Article suggesting that Saints ability to keep going till the end and to be able to snatch a last minute winner suggests we are a top side. I agree that top sides often seem to do this (presumably after wearing the opposition down over 90 mins), but (whilst we always play till the end) we haven't had too many late winners. We do seem more able to win 1-0 than we have in the last few seasons due to our defence. I think we will be a big club when people stop talking about it.
Are you sure Villa are historically more successful than City? I remember City being very successful in the late 60s and into the early 70s and I am sure they had considerable success in previous decades!! Might be on a par historically!!!!
Villa: 7 First Division titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups and 1 European Cup City: 4 First Division/PL titles, 5 FA Cups, 3 League Cups and 1 UEFA Cup I'd say Villa's record edges it, albeit longer ago.
We are competing in the PL now not the past. Villa's past is admirable and they can be proud of it, but has no bearing now. As far as we are concerned City is a big club and Villa are not.
True, but I think TSS's point was to illustrate that things change and evolve, so that today's concept of a top 4 club might not be up there in a few years' time. There might even be a certain South Coast club (no, not them Lapras) lodged in people's minds by then!
Thank you for understanding Chilco [and LFF too]. As it happens, Aston Villa are the 4th most successful club in England. Was that surprise to people..? I think it perfectly illustrates that history means sod all in modern football. As Fran said, we are not living in the past, even though the media and pundits often do. It leaves me to conclude once again that it really is all about resources and media impact these days. At this moment in time, Saints are an established top-half football club, I would say. After this season they might be considered a top 6 club. It might take a few seasons for us to be considered as one of the established top4. But at least we're going in the right direction.
http://www.teamtalk.com/features/16129/9717990/- Analysis of top 4 contenders with reference to rank of remaining opponents.
That illustrates quite well about the relative difficulties the rival clubs have in their run-ins to the end of the season. I said on another thread that ours was very doable. I think the article backs up my belief.
