1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

What has led to the mclaren downfall?

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by El_Bando, May 13, 2013.

?

where does the blame lie

  1. The loss of Mercedes backing

  2. The Loss of Lewis Hamilton

  3. The loss of Paddy Lowe

  4. Jenson Button as #1 driver

  5. Martin Whitmarsh

  6. 2007

  7. The design teams direction

  8. something else?

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    Its an open vote with multiple choice. What do you think is the main cause of the demise of Mclaren.
     
    #1
  2. JonnyBaws

    JonnyBaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    717
    No option to vote though <doh>
     
    #2
  3. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    <laugh> give me a min I was publishing the poll!!

    Its up now <ok>
     
    #3
  4. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    7,655
    Likes Received:
    1,314
    Where's the 'all of the above' option?
     
    #4
  5. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    Its multiple choice so you can tick all <ok>
     
    #5
  6. Max Whiplash

    Max Whiplash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    156
    I agree, a bit of everything plus an unhealthy dose of diversification into the road car market.
     
    #6
  7. JonnyBaws

    JonnyBaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    717
    I've been away for a few days so looking to make up for lost time :D

    Have a thanks <ok>
     
    #7
  8. JonnyBaws

    JonnyBaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,345
    Likes Received:
    717
    Everything other than..
    Something Else, Whitless and 2007
    Could have added Sam Michael? He seems to have the reverse Midus touch?
     
    #8
  9. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    13,495
    Likes Received:
    2,568
    Stubbornness.
     
    #9
  10. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    7,655
    Likes Received:
    1,314
    Jeez, so I have to tick more than one box? Gotta do everything these days............
     
    #10

  11. Max Whiplash

    Max Whiplash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    156
    Sam Michael is awful: first he ****ed up Williams, now McLaren. Makes you wonder who he works for ;)
     
    #11
  12. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    Surprised that people have suggested that it is Jb's fault given that the car Is fundamentally **** and apart from Bahrain has exceeded all expectations?
     
    #12
  13. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    The reason I put JB up is because he is the #1 driver so the car is build around him.

    The points I put up above were points me and freind thought of as the reason but I was interested to see what you guys think.
     
    #13
  14. Max Whiplash

    Max Whiplash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    156
    I don't think anyone is picking on Jenson specifically, I think it's more of a case of everyone having to take their share of responsibility; and I'd include Sam Michael and Ron Dennis in that too.
     
    #14
  15. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    7,655
    Likes Received:
    1,314
    A lot of people were talking about the car being made for Jenson this year and therefore not a compromise between his and Hamilton's driving styles. SO is it McLaren designers for getting it wrong, or simply Jenson's driving style is not suited to the tyres in F1 now, so double disadvantage?
     
    #15
  16. Eat Sleep Watch F1 Repeat

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    4,485
    Likes Received:
    19
    Their design philosophy needs to be scrapped. Now that Lowe has left you would suspect Tim Goss will design the next 3 cars at least. They need consistency in this department, they seem to be struggling this year because of Paddy Lowe's departure. Had he still been involved with the team I think they would have at least made a little more progress.
     
    #16
  17. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    8,233
    Likes Received:
    811
    I think given that the car is radically different to the previous car and that it was very late when it was confirmed that Lewis was leaving, I would imagine driver input was limited. The fundamental flaws in the car remind me off 2009 when Lewis was at the back of the field (notably Silverstone), the driver is ultimately restricted by the car and I would imagine that they have no input actuall design, maybe driver presence at most?

    I would apply the same logic to the thought process that things would/could be different if Lewis was driving the car, evident by his performance on Sunday which was limited to the car and its behaviour.
     
    #17
  18. El_Bando

    El_Bando Can't remember, where was I?
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,374
    Likes Received:
    1,830
    do you know that 2009 was brilliant even though Hamilton and Alonso (at Renault) were in shockingly bad cars, they still put on a great performance racing each other. Nobody was watching the leaders and the expectation was on Brawn GP who had their first race as not the best team on the grid.
     
    #18
  19. Di Resta is faster than u

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,477
    Likes Received:
    14
    So I voted

    loss of Pady Lowe, Teams direction, Button as number 1 and Martin Whitmarsh

    But overall the biggest reason for me and the one that has led to the others, MARTIN WHITMARSH
     
    #19
  20. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,821
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    The reason is the direction, for which part of the blame should fall on Whitmarsh as the leader of McLaren.

    I don't belive it is anything to do with Lowe, Hamilton or Button. Simply because Lowe left very late in development and Hamilton and Button are only drivers. The idea that centering the car around Buttons needs could have caused some of the problems is interesting, but every analysis i've seen has pointed to Aero problems and poor wind tunnel correlation which would not have had a lot of input from him. The majority of the big design decisions and the philosophy chosen would have been from before Lewis left, so it's more tuned to Button rather than built for him alone. I also don't think Lewis would have been doing any better driving it, though since the only way to get good points in it is to tyre save we would probably have a few more "i can't go any slower" messages.

    The loss of Mercedes backing could have had an effect, i'll start to believe that if they fail to recover, for now the blame needs to be put on the fact they decided to scrap the best car on the grid for reasons that science can not explain.
     
    #20

Share This Page