OK, It's 2am and i'm not sleeping (please be aware that I then went to sleep and i've just woke up and continuing this), there is nothing on the custard so i'm thinking... Thinking about football, thinking about the situation at Chelsea and more particularly AVB and then I start thinking about Liverpool and more particularly Kenny and then those two thoughts merge in to one and a light bulb illuminates in my head they ain't all that different! Tactical Changes Much has been said about AVB's higher line defence and the struggles Chelsea had with it. Similarly Liverpool have made tactical changes to their defence, looking to pass the ball out from the back instead of the hoof up to Torres tactic we saw under Hodgson. Many will say that Kenny's tactics suit players like Agger, Kelly, Johnson, etc better but I don't think that is entirely the case. Carra has spent the best part of his career hoofing the football. I'd imagine him in training putting on the training bib and smashing balls over the wall on to Crown road shouting 'ave it! It's safe to say that Chelsea have struggled to adapt to AVB's tactical changes right across the pitch, yes they have smashed the odd team (Bolton) but on the whole the side never embraced AVB's changes. On the other hand Kenny's pass and move style has been embraced by Liverpool, yes, this is the same tactic employed by manay manager of old but don't be fooled in to thinking that these players have played this tactic with such intensity before. Hodgson employed a long ball tactic, Benitez - while very tactically astute played a variety of tactics, while many had elements of the pass and move system Kenny has installed they were never based around it in the same fashion Kenny's are Changing the old guard Many see this as AVB's biggest downfalls - he couldn't fight player power. AVB was charged with trying to phase out Lampard, Terry Cole & Drogba whilst bringing in new players to slowly replace them. Kenny has had to do the same... Slowly phasing out Carra, Gerrard, Maxi & Kuyt. Kenny also had to massivley overhaul the squad last summer, getting rid of a whole load of dross not fit for purpose (Koncheskey, Poulson, Cole, Pacheco,et al) Young Players waiting on the sidelines AVB and Kenny both had players looking in on the first team. AVB had Josh McEachran, Daniel Sturrage & Romelu Lukaku all young and hungry. Kenny has Shelvey, Spearing, Kelly, Sterling, Suso, Flannagan.all floating around the first team. Sturridges dad has been flapping his gums to the press about Chelsea while Lukaku has apparently tried to force a loan move in frustration for not playing Yet Kelly, Shelvey and Flanno all seem happy to wait until they break in to the first team. They have taken the opportunities to go on loan when offered and all talk with the press has been positive New Strikers Bedding in Carroll and Torres have to be judged on the goals they have scored. both are struggling, both are trying to adapt to new tactical systems and both are out of the running for euro 2012 because of itl. But if you looked at the statistics, Carroll is streets ahead of Torres this year. Is Carroll better than Torres? No! So where did AVB go wrong Open Questions Why are Chelsea's players allowed so much freedom when talking to the media Why couldn't Chelsea's players change to AVB's style of play? What does Kenny do that AVB didn't?
Bozz. I agree with all your points. However, Liverpool can never be compared with Chelsea, traditionally Liverpool are usually patience with their managers. I think the only manager that had the shortest stay was Hodgson also there are only three managers in recent years appointed outside the (caliper) not within the club, were Houllier, Benitez and Hodgson. and apart from Hodgson Houllier and Benitez were given the opportunities to do their job. To me, Chelsea and Liverpool are two different clubs that cannot be compared regarding manegerial appointment and dismissal.
there was no way avb could turn Chelski around without time,something the mad russian can't understand.The new manager will have the same problem,at least your board are giving kenny time ,as your problems also will take time to sort to.
I don't think it's a big case of what AVB has done wrong compared to Kenny. If KK had managed Chelsea he would have been given the sack too because Chelsea are impatient. Similarly, if AVB managed here we'd be giving him time and I suspect our league position would be unchanged as of now. It's transition and it is always painfully slow. As for why AVB got the sack, well RA has a warped sence of hierarchy at Chelsea where everyone reports to him equally and directly (throw back to his Soviet Russia days? ) Which means Terry is constantly in contact with RA and this undermines the manager. The same can be said of transfers where Roman picks the signings. The manager to RA is no more than a tactical coach and that will never work in the prem
For the this breaks into two neat categories What kenny has done directly better or worse than AVB What differing circumstances exist between both clubs In my opinion kenny has gravitas, unlike AVB he could walk in as a living legend and shut up the moaners and improtnatly shift the malcontents wihtout losing the fans. Kenny won a pot by respecting all competitions Kenny wound up the press the fans hate, thereby earning quick credit Kenny played to his players strengths or lack thereof. It is unfair to AVB to say he had an equal standing or set of circumstances AVB had no director of football to buy who he wanted or act as a buffer form the fans AVB had no-one to back him in sacking lampard and terry and drogba AVB had unreasoned expectations heaped on day one about winning titles and CL. with an aging team and signings like meireles and benayoun over the years he had no team to back this up. Day one no matter who got the job you had asshole players like lampard and terry and if they can get anchelotti the sack they can get anyone the sack.
There are too many differences between AVB and Kenny to make this a reasonable comparison. The 2 characters are very different in both age and experience. The clubs themselves are very different and the squads are now at opposite ends of the age spectrum. I could go on but it will only serve to prove that the differences are too great. Last night on Radio 5 a journo (can't remember who) was revealing supposedly true stories regarding AVB's relationship with the players - even from their pre-season training camps. Now that journo did do an effective hachet-job so I'll take a lot of it with a pinch of salt. However there was enough there to suggest that AVB's approach to players was somewhat like Rafa's. Kenny on the other hand has proved his support for players, he is prepared to put his arm around them - yet is also supposed to have an iron fist inside his glove (though behind closed doors - the Liverpool way).
Out of the championship...champion league also doubtful. Liverpool give their managers time that is the the difference. I do not think in recent years any Liverpool manager have been there for less than three years apart from Hodgson. What Liverpool and Manchester United have achieved Roman Abramovich wants to achieve that in a short spell of time. It took Liverpool and Manchester United many many years to fill the trophy cupboard. Liverpool are yet to win the premiership, still they believe they are going to do so.
Good read but two points: 1) Bit harsh on Pacheco IMO. The player is young and was one of our most promising youngsters who was also the star of a not so long ago under 21 world cup tournament. He has been loaned out to gain first team experience since he seemed to be struggling to make the step up from the reserve to the first team. There is time for him to come back and prove him self. I could be wrong though. and 2) Didn't Chelsea sign Lukaku this summer after AVB arrived...?
Doesn't tell the whole story. AVB inherited the side that finished 2nd last year, Kenny inherited a side that was 12th.
I think Chelsea are tying to be a European club in the English league. I have always wondered why in England, managers have to be given time to "turn things around" and build a team "in their image" while with the big European clubs a new coach is expected to hit the ground running and win everything that season , then move on. Surely both methodologies cannot work, so which one is right? Is England such a different beast? it's the same with the director of football role, common in Europe, frowned upon here. RA is obviously like one of these mad nutters that get elected to run Real Madrid every other year, and promise to buy the biggest players in the world. Is it all in our heads that we are so different, do we just different mental crutches in the English game, like having a manager that the players "respect". What motivates European players, when the manager's office has a revolving door? It is obvious that AVB failed with his man management skills, thinking it is OK to enigmatically descent upon the pre match talk and dish out words of tactical genius and expect the players to just accept everything. Never having to put an arm around a player or gee them up. Does it work like that in Europe? Do head coaches only see the players for very short periods of time and not have any relationship with them? If it does, why hasn't England adopted this concept, seeing that we have so many overseas players these days? Rafa seemed to do the same thing as AVB, while Kenny just wants to play 5-a-side every day. Is Kenny not enigmatic enough? Have we struggled this season, because the new players just don't get the inert power of Kenny, having not been at the club? Do they just see some 60 year old bloke wanting to play with footie with the lads?
Isn't it down to our the clubs are run? European clubs tend to have Managing Directors or Directors of Football type position where they are repsonsible for the comings and goings of players, they ultimately decide the squad. Because of this, the clubs generally already have a style of play and the incoming managers have t fit in rather than the players fitting the manager. Obviously, the managers tweaks things to get the best of the players too.
The have one thing in common... both were idiots who suck up for a player who was clearly in the wrong and both came out of it much worse off.
Just stating an obvious point. Not my fault if you cant handle the truth. Both managers looked like idiots during their respective sagas at their clubs and both know it.
Old news my friend, have you not been on here in the last couple of months. Use the search facility if you want to talk about 'respective sagas'
