Not one Arsenal fan can say Wenger hasn't done great things for this club! He's achieved amazing on the field success, changed our culture, raised our world status/brand, and strengthened our financial stability. But in the terms the on field success the evidence would suggest a large portion of that was done to a few key external factors which have since left his side; 1. He inherited an amazing set of defensive players 2. He inherited a group of with several born leaders 3. He inherited Dennis Bergkamp the heartbeat for our success under Wenger 4. David Dein was a key negotiator and had contacts around the world...he made deals happen 5. The scouting network he developed before arriving at Arsenal The ONLY excuse to stick with Wenger seems to be based upon loyalty for the first half of his Arsenal career but without the key components around him he seems lost and the true talents are exposed (lack of tactics, inability to motivate, etc...) We've seen behind the curtain and there isn't the right man running the show anymore
Wenger - The Wizard of Oz. You are right that his early success was built on a blend of his strengths as an attacking coach and what we already had defensively. It is not a sursprise to me that when the last of the players he didnt sign left, the team fell apart.
there are facts some people refuse to acknowledge or debate here as it exposes something blind faithers won't or can't contemplate. wengers failures in 8.5 yrs GG won 6 major trophies inc a euro cwc and then left behind a legacy of players that went on to win more under wenger. i wont mention brown bags here as its all well known etc. wenger has won 7 major trophies in close to 16 yrs the last of which is well documented. if wenger left now he leaves behind one true world class player who won't even likely be around in a few weeks if wenger took over this current squad would he have won his 7 trophies in his first nine yrs? .... all things in perspective ..... arsenal are bigger then wenger or any of "his" fans .... we were a great club before he took over, during his reign and will be once he's gone, the fact we have nothing in the locker except empty comments about mental strength and we owe the fans and we will learn from this .... the players are simply not that good . thats not their fault im afraid, if wenger picked me i'd turn out for the club and give 100%, the fact i'd look like the squil on a bad day would not be my fault at all ... blame the man who gave me the chance to prove how mediocre i was as a player. wengers reign has been "great", his reign has been heavily influenced by what GG, BR & DD did for the club ... win things and create a legacy .... wengers reign leaves one more trophy and no legacy for the next man. shame but for me wenger is destroying himself, his credibilty and ultimately the club by suggesting that in the past 3 or 4 yrs he has worked with his best ever squad then letting half go and now needing a 75% rebuild (more if we truely ask if song/sagna are good enough to win things) in all most any other industry that kind of miss management and failure would suggest the sack, but for wenger because he won 7 cups in 16 yrs is immune from this, no one is immune from failure and wenger is reaping the whirlwind from what he sowed ... for keeping faith in poor players and for giving denilson over 200 games he deserves all the flack hes had and the more flack coming his way. he needs to ask GG to come back and sort out his future for him as he is proving he cant do it himself. oh and by the way i get no enjoyment saying any of this but wenger leaves me no choice when he said eboue was part of his best ever arsenal squad 2 yrs ago .... LMAO!!
oh and a fact that cannot be disputed is wenger has never put 11 of his own men on the pitch for arsenal to win a trophy .... dennis bergkamp played in the fa cup 2005 .... thank you DD and Rioch .. in the overall it does not make wengers success any less tainted, he was great ... but GG built a team of great players of his own and left them for the next guy .... oh and a. cole was at the club before wenger got here ..wenger gave him his debut, but GG regime created him.
George Graham was by far a better manager than Wenger. period. More successful too if you take int account what he won in the time he won it. It was George Graham who changed Arsenal into a club who could challenge for and win titles again - and it was because of him that players like Dennis Bergkamp could be signed. He put us on the European map. Wenger took over a great side, just a slight tweak away from being world beaters. He added flair to the side, but again was very lucky. His reign coincided with a golden age in French football, and he had the contacts to expolit that, bringing in the likes of Henry, Vieira, Petit, and Pires. The link to the past has gone, and French football has declined - and so Wenger can no longer find the players and has of course failed to maintain the mentality and fight he inherited from Grahams team. Wenger - a lucky manager - who has survived way too long because of his luck. By the way - this is somethig else i said three years ago and got slated for it.
Arsene rebuilt that defence when they all started to retire and you were very successfull with the new one, I don't think anyone will doubt that he's also created great attacking line ups too with his buys. However the defence has been broken for a few years and all the money Wenger has spent to remedy it but he's spent average amounts and got average players, Sagna and Vermaelen are the only players I'd have in our squad, let alone first team. The attack is set up for teams to play a certain way against them too and when the opposition defence don't oblige they run out of ideas.
To say that Wenger has simply been lucky for the last 14 years and only had success because he had players he inherited - is probably one of the dumbest comments I've ever read on here.
And this year is no different since we have been so reliant on RvP and the misfortune of the clubs around us to be still in with a chance for fourth place. Unless the team's mental and tactical approach change though I don't see any hope of even that.
Refute it. What argument do you have? Did Wenger win a single trophy with a team he built totally be himself? Was Bergkamp a key reason for our success? Did George Graham leave him with a fantastic defence to build from? Have we won anything since the last of the GG/BR signings left? Has the team steadily regressed and become a defensive joke since the last of the GG players left? Did Wenger benefit from a golden age in French Football? Highlight some positives for Wenger. There are many - but none that would lead me to believe he was anything more than lucky - certainly on the evidence of the last 7 years.
It's just his usual red herring remarks to throw us off the scent Jayram. Y'know, the usual clap trap he comes out with defending the indefensible.
He thinks we are taking more pleasure from calling out the issues and being proven correct than when Arsenal are successful. Sad, but he truly believes this and has commented on it in the Calling All Gooners thread.
there are two kinds of supporters here ... 1) free thinking arsenal supporters who can air their own views, comments and ideas in open debate and love the club before any single person or 2) blind faith arsene supporters who wake up in a coma, wait to hear what wenger says in a news conf then go onto chat boards to restate it i know where the way forward lays. and i know where my views come from. wenger has done great things and gave us great players ... nothing for years of course and greatly influenced by what he inherited, because he now thinks players of the quality of almunia, eboue denilson bentner vela sqill and sundry others were part of his best ever squad ... better then c96-2000?, better then 2000-5? this i cannot accept and will challenge at every chance, he is a laughing stock and i don't accept that as ok for my club. the fact is some arsene supporters will not be supporting arsenal once hes gone ... i think this is a good thing for the club long term .. arsenal for arsenal fans always.
It's his tinted take on reality my friend like Nero while Rome burned. We may recall of course a certain dictator who regarded everyone around him who opposed his view as traitors. It's the same psychological approach.
