Have to say that we was a very poor second half yesterday , we did ever so well to claw our way back into the game after real joke defending not by Monk as some like to think but by the whole defence!! were there any good points yesterday?? well, i thought wayne routeledge did well 1st half, he looked keen to get on the ball and alot of things went through him, Danny Graham scored a good goal which will be awesome for his confidence ,Leon and Joe allen were workman like but after those guys there wasnt much to write home about from the others IMO. Sinclair did really well to create the goal but yet again disappeared for large parts of the game! Dobbie coming on sowed the seeds of defeat as far as im concerned. There was nothing creative from him and he looks well off the pace not just physically but mentally too . There are going to be plenty who say he hasnt had game time and its unfair to judge him and they may be right, but to me its clear why he isnt in the starting line up , its because he isnt quick enough at this level,in his head or in his feet. Monk ,well we all know he is playing injured and it shows as well!! of course the opposition will know this too and it seemed to me he was a target for the Norwich players . I dont blame Gary though, i blame the rest of the defensive unit for not being up for the battle and not being switched on enough in defensive situations!! Brenden has a difficult road ahead , this was a game we should have been battling hard to win, a potential 6 pointer if you like , the lack of fight second half was a concern for me, im not sure if its because the players beleive too much in the comfort blanket of good home form , but i get the impression they think playing back at the liberty will always re write the balance! in my view it will take more than just good home form to stay in this league !! How good were Norwich? well, they were better than us by a long way yesterday and have been in the other prem games they have played , their squad looks good while our squad looks a bit thin , we are into the season enough to know we arnt quite strong enough beyond the 1st eleven . Do we spend money in January ?? looking at what QPR have done with a load of money isnt inspiring is it? surely Rodgers can find the missing pieces even if it comes in the shape of loan signings ? there needs to be something added to our squad if we are to survive, Lita and dobbie were a waste of space yesterday and they are the Aces up our sleeves !! What is the view by fellow jacks on what we need to stay up? do you think we have enough talent in our current squad ? will the return of Kemy and Caulker be enough for us or do we need inspiration from the manager in the form of a quality loan in January ?? On the other hand do some think this result was just a bad day at the office ?? IMO it was crucial to take something from yesterdays game ,but that is just my view! thoughts please ??
Norway - i have just said exactly the same as you have on another thread i think we should write this one off as long as we learn from this game, this is basically our 1st realistic game away from home that we should really take into account as our three others were against "THE BIG GUNS". Caulks & Kemy are back soon i have heard, so that will take some pressure off of Monk who is giving his all for the club but being caught out at times. Need to make sure that we have sufficient cover at full backs as i said previously Taylor had a strip torn off of him by his opponent yesterday and some. I think he will look for some other players in Jan but only one or two just to top up our core squad i feel, which will be enough i feel. Bring on Wolves and get back on track, need points ASAP away to take any pressure off the games not at the liberty STID
Its the fact that this was the first real test away from home that concerns me Beppe !! i was hoping for alot more if im honest . We should have been competative for 90mins and we wernt , i felt there were a few that threw in the towel in the second half and i felt we had nothing to breath life into the team coming from the bench!! Dobbie is very much loved by many including myself but i think id rather see Luke Moore on the field TBH. Norwich was the first real yard stick for us and we came up short , if we can defend so well against Stoke and so crap against Norwich it must be down to the application and appitie of our players
i too was very disappointed by our performance yesterday. we did well to get back into it in the second half of the first period after a dreadful start and looked the more likely to prosper going into the break. but the second half performance was pretty woeful. when norwich got their deserved third goal we gave up the ghost. there was still 30 minutes left to play but you could see the heads go down. the travelling fans deserved better than that, as i mentioned on the matchday thread i can accept a defeat, but one without any desire or passion i cannot. i'm hoping it was a bad day at the office and i trust Brendan has had some words to say behind closed doors, because if we have a few more performances like that then we're going to struggle. we definitely need strengthening in January, Players need more competition for their places. i hope the office has sorted out how to file the papers properly.
Norway me the same in the latter of the first half it was mostly us so i thought second half hit them hard like they done to us but it never materialised, we could of still been there now and still not hit the target, good shout about moore as i think dobbie needs to start rather than be an impact player. Sinclair does disappear in games but that is not always his fault as sometimes our forwards make runs but we seem to be afraid to give the ball and that is that player out of the game. not always just as a change of tack to keep opponents guessing. Graham made some very clever runs yesterday but wasnt found and i thought he is really growing in confidence just needs some help to see the runs and play the ball to him. there was a good statemant by Stan Collymore yesterday that he feels it takes players on average 8 games to get an understanding with new teammates / clubs systems, so hopefully now is the time. look out wolves the jacks are on their way!!
Hmmm....yes, was waiting for the Dobbie knockers. Comes on 30 minutes before the end and 15 of that he's injured and spends it hobbling around. You're deluded if you think that his coming on 'sowed the seeds of defeat'. Utter tosh. Losing two quick goals and playing poorly as a team for the whole of the second half did for us yesterday. You cannot expect a player to get up to speed in this League without serious game time and the guy's not getting it. He has to start in our next home game if fit. But he won't as Routledge is a Rodgers signing and one of his favourites. As for "I'd rather see Luke Moore on the field than Dobbie" - that has to be a joke, surely? If ever a phrase "flatters to deceive" was appropriate then it's in relation to Routledge. Lots of skill, lots of pace, lots of effort, zero product. Hardly a single effective through ball from him yesterday - and that's his job. An attacking midfielder with zero goals in 107 games and counting says it all in my book. As for Monk - how on earth can you say the defence were poor but let's 'not blame Gary'?? Don't get it. Last time I looked he was part of the defence yesterday, and one that as a whole woefully underperformed - him included. Moras in, Monk out would be a step in the right direction in getting some points away from home. Throw in some serious training ground work on defending set pieces and that will help. Harsh but true. Thank god Caulker and Agustien are back soon!!!
HTR i agree with Routledge maybe he needs some bench warming time / stint in the reserves and give dobbie a go as he has only started against Man city(correct me if wrong) and to be fair cannot use this as a example of what he can do as that was a baptism of fire. but has been scoring regular for the reserves
Scored a cracking equaliser v Arsenal Reserves and another two in the game before that I believe. Can you see Routledge doing that? What's he got to do to get a start? If he's given a go and isn't up to it I'll be the first to say drop him but as you say he's only started v Man City - a game where nobody covered themselves in glory. Then he gets limited game time yet again and gets it in the neck when we lose. He must be so frustrated.
HTR You have to admit though that even before he went down injured yesterday himself & Lita didnt bring anything to the party, i know it isnt just them but when jazz came on i thought he did bring something to the game, whereas Lita looked like he hadnt played football before(maybe trying too hard but nevertheless) lets knuckle down now and get back to being mean in defence and slick in possesion if that means changing a face or two then i think buck will
i'd be happy to see Dobbie get a couple of starts in place of routledge, starting with Wolves if he's fit - tho he looked pretty crock when he went off. i'm more concerned with the spirit of the team, in a week when we've seen our national teams at football and rugby show great heart and courage, i was hoping some would rub off on the swans - not so when the third went in yesterday. Rodgers needs to get them better organised and motivated especially the defence, wonder if shaun edwards could be persuaded to look at our defence
Sam Warburton is out for a couple of internationals so that could be arranged or Halfpenny (did you see him yesterday) he has got to be sponsored by RED BULL
HTR- We differ and agree on alot of issues but to state my opinion as utter tosh is indeed very childish of you, as i stated it is MY opinion ,im not asking people to agree with it just respect the fact that there are differing view points!! something you seem to struggle with sometimes! Again i side with Brenden rodgers RE Dobbie , he doesnt see him as a starter just yet and i tend to agree , you obviously think you know better than the manager ! I however agree 100% with you that Rodgers has his favourites , it was an Article i posted some weeks ago where i highlighted this, but he does know what his players are capable of more than us and pace is a deciding factor in team selection something that Dobbie will NEVER have! I think dobbie will have a part to play but if he cant make a difference coming on at the tail end of a game where fitness levels and speed have dropped then how on earth is he going to set the world alight starting a game which is 40-50% faster than championship football ?? Im not alone in this thinking as Brenden rodgers tends to agree dont you think ? RE Luke moore , its not a joke Aussie , ive seen him contribute better touches and passes in his limited showing than dobbie , maybe if you think dobbie needs to start to prove himself then you should also agree that Luke moore needs the same consideration?? or is it one rule for dobbie and another for Moore ? You seem to be very one eyed when it comes to Dobbie , im a big fan of his also but i prefer to take the balanced view . You mention the reserves and the goals he s scored ,well surely you should be beating the drum for craig beatie as well if reserve football is the measuring stick ? he has had some blinding performances there(before injury) and as stated by myself maybe deserved a place on the bench as a result . Fact is Brenden has used dobbies good reserve form in prem games as an impact sub and it hasnt worked out at all.
HTR-I can easily say its not down to Monk because if he had a choice he wouldnt be playing!! he is injured and running on one leg FFS !! he is playing because somebody in our club ****ed up the transfer of our new signings ,he is doing his best and taking the chance of being humiliated every time he walks onto the field and he is doing that for SCFC not Gary monk! If our other defenders showed the same amount of bottle and passion as monk did yesterday(by playing even though one foot is numb) then the soft goals wouldnt have been conceeded, i respect somebody who is willing to put there body on the line over someone who didnt try hard enough, and the rest of our defence didnt try hard enough yesterday IMO.
How do you know our Club is to blame for the transfer debacle? Not my understanding of it, but there you go. If Monk's 'running on one leg' he shouldn't be playing. End of. Moras should have started if his only competitor for a place only has one leg. You seem to think passion is enough. It's not. Ability is everything. Monk was fantastic against Stoke so probably deserved a starting place yesterday. Both he and the rest of the defence were abject yesterday and to criticise the defence without including Monk is laughable. His positional nous, along with Williams' was found sorely wanting yesterday and to pass that off because of injury is being sentimental and generous in the extreme. If his injury is so severe how could put in a decent performance v Stoke then be so poor yesterday? We'll agree to disagree on Dobbie. I've said my piece. My point is that you can't make judgements based on limited game time. Not a question of being one eyed it's a question of giving someone a real opportunity. If he gets a run of starts and doesn't take his chance then fair enough, but that hasn't happened. Routledge has had masses of time on the pitch and has looked busy and industrious but has delivered very little. You seem to rate 'touches and passes' higher than what matters - goals. Routledge & Moore will look good but will never deliver goals and you know it. At the risk of 'doing a Dai' I was right about Agustien, remember. Wasn't it you who said that he was 'nothing special' last season? Now he's a real miss for us in midfield where our undersized players are frequently muscled off the ball. Time will tell if I'm right about Dobbie but I think he has the ability and will deliver for us, but only if he's given some starts. Lastly, because I think your opinion is utter tosh doesn't mean I don't think you're entitled to it, only that I think you're wrong. It's nothing personal.
Kemy is nothing special indeed. does well but doesnt set the world alight either, like most of our midfield at the moment. How were you right about Kemy? how many games have we won when he plays? you say you cant make judgements based on limited game time but that seems to be the case with moore! so you ve contridicted your self there. How can you say i rate touches and passes more than goals? add dobbie to the list alongside routeledge you cant even add moore to that list as he has had even less time to impress than dobbie has. your arguments are lop sided aussie .you rate dobbie and kemy and think they are the best thing since sliced bread but refuse to have anything negative said about them, i just call it as i see it and while i think Kemy has done well this season you seem to have taken out of context my quote when i said he was "nothing special" the fact is that he wasnt special last season thats why he didnt get in the team and ended up on loan at Palace!! So yes indeed nothing special last season. not that it is relevent to my points today . If you think Monk deserves stick for playing while injured and possibly shortening his career in the process then fair enough, its easy to say "he shouldnt be playing" there are reasons why he is though,something that you seem to forget and refuse to use as a factor one of them being that clearence was only granted the evening before the match( for moras)and no doubt the team preparation in the week woujld have had an influence on brendens selection. To answer your point on why Monk was good against stoke and poor yesterday says more about how our full backs carried out their defensive duty , monk was left more exposed against norwich then he was against stoke, he was allowed to play much deeper in the stoke game and therefore did not need to rely on his limited pace to defend, everything was dropped onto his head and he was not pushed out of position like he was yesterday.our defence was more compact against stoke than it was yesterday. simple when you look at it properly aussie You obviously feel the need "to be right" about these players for some reason, time will tell . Of course, i was "right" about kemy because he never made the team last season but ive never felt the need to shout it from the roof tops . Point is its not about who is right or wrong its about opinions and yours are all about defending your favorite players no matter what. Nothing wrong with that either. i would love to see dobbie do well but if he comes on and plays **** then i tend to say so and not blow sunshine up his ar$e regardless of his performance
I don't feel a need to be right. I just am. NJ: "i just call it as i see it" What, from not seeing any live games? No offence. Agustien: do all our players have to 'set the world alight'? I said at an early stage that Kemy hardly put a foot wrong when I've seen him play live - and I include pre season friendlies. You're fond of saying Rodgers is right, well he's been right to put him in the starting line up this season. Not bad for someone who's 'nothing special'. From nowhere to an indispendible in a Prem team. Not bad. So yes, I was right, and so were most Swans fans who agreed - I think you were the only one saying he wasn't up to much. But who's shouting from the rooftops? Just telling you that you were wrong about Agustien in the face of most fans who watched him play when on your own admission you hadn't. And Brendan agrees Monk: Please stop defending him. You're embarrassing yourself. Our defence to a man was dreadful yesterday. Talk about blowing sunshine up an arse! Your argument seems to be that he's a loyal servant to the Club (undeniable) so deserves to be excluded from our woeful display at the back at Carrow Road. Far too sentimental I'm afraid. If you called it like you saw it you'd be a tad less disingenuous. You're missing the point about Dobbie - for the umpteenth time. I will be prepared to criticise 'my favourite players' if they are given a fair crack. I was heavily critical of Dobbie during the Man City game but as it turns out nobody covered themselves in glory that evening. IF Dobbie is given a go and doesn't take his chances, I'll acknowledge that. Likewise Monk. I've repeatedly and publicly doubted he's up to this level but was one of the first to say he was mom v Stoke. The future: I've got a kind of old fashioned view that it's goals that will keep us up not fancy-dan footwork. Are you seriously suggesting that Routledge or Moore will deliver them? Get real. Think you'll find you're in a considerable minority by saying you'd rather see Moore on the pitch than Dobbie. As you say it's all about opinions and we'll see how it turns out.
this game must go down as the worse we have played since Brendan took charge and i suppose a bad game effects other teams as well sometime during the season. I'm not taking anything away from norwich but we never played like we did against man city, chelsea or arsenal where we lost also but at least we were not down hearted because we gave the better opposition a good go, we never looked like winning and even though dobbie is way off the pace he did try his best and nobody can blame him for the loss as the game was lost in the first 10 minutes as our defence went to sleep. Norwich deserve their win because they were alert and closed us down...I hope we never play as bad again and i hope this is a wake up call to let the players know that no games are easier in the premiership unlike Brendan and the coaches have indicated in the EP on a few occasions. whether you play man united or norwich we must go into the game with exactly the same playing enthusiasm.
My fear is that a lot of teams from now on in will be alert and concentrate on closing us down. We know that our players like the time and space to play the game at their tempo. When they do that they look good. Now, if we all know that our passing game disintegrates, or at least becomes ineffective when we are pressurised, you can bet your last dollar that the rest of the PL managers know it as well. Our lads are going to have to battle in every game for the right to play, particularly in those games against our closest rivals. The performance against Norwich was pathetic to be honest. We seemed disinterested and lethargic. Was the team sulking because those Norwich bully-boys were not prepared to sit back and let us strut our stuff? Norwich were not about to do that and neither will any other team in this league. Away losses against Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal I can accept, Norwich much less so, especially given the abject way we capitulated against their team who are supposedly in our bracket. Buck has to get busy. He has to be ruthless and select only those who are going to give 100% in every game. Those who do not should be invited to find another club which can afford the luxury of carrying them.
HTR- you keep refering to Kemy , and yes Brenden was correct to put him on loan last season , hence why i said nothing special and that was based on the games i saw him play in pre season also. Monk - well you asked me why he was good against stoke and bad against Norwich and i told you seems you didnt like the answer , im not a big fan of gary monk but respect the fact he put his body on the line and gave 100% . the fact that his 100% wasnt good enough is ok by me , its the other defenders who didnt 100% IMO and yes i saw the game live ,did you ? And if you read my OP i stated " real joke defending not by Monk as some like to think but by the whole defence!! " the whole defence aussie !! that includes Monk , its just that i regard his performance as acceptable considering his injury issues. maybe i should have typed not just monk as some like to think but by the whole defence?? I think im right in saying its you that is missing the point Anyway keep beating me over the head with kemy even though that argument was about his selection in last years team!! and totally irrelevent to this article. My points in the OP remain aussie , and it is not about routledge,dobbie or moore personally it is more about the fact that i feel our squad is not strong enough to survive right now, the fact that we are arguing over 3 forward players that havent come close to scoring (routledge 1 assit for penalty aside) kind of sums up my article nicely!! the points i made and wanted to debate were about the squad being strong enough or about weather we need to strengthen key areas , maybe some think the squad is strong enough i do not. We can talk about Kemy and dobbie and routledge and moore and monk and lita but it all proves one thing to me , these players are boarder line prem quality ( i accept Kemy has done well THIS season but nothing special ) and there are plenty of us that are un sure of their abilities at this level . But ability or not you must be 100% commited to be able to compete and some wernt yesterday . Gary monk is excused because he was injured routledge - do you think dobbie did better than routledge yesterday? I agree with much of what you say aussie, especially RE monk , i also said the same thing about his abilities at this level , you seem to want to put a label on every thing i said , well im not saying luke moore is the answer to all our problems just that in the LIMITED TIME on the field BOTH players have had luke moore has adapted better and looked the better player . if you dont agree with that thats fine. but i stand by that view point. I want dobbie to succeed, i want them ALL to do well !!
