Off Topic UK / EU Future

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colognehornet said:
Most terrorists appear to be homegrown SH. There is something which you do not understand about Schengen SH. European borders have always been different to British ones - something to do with a lack of water ! They have always been porous, and Schengen is simply a reflection of that. The only exception to this was the Iron Curtain - I once crossed the border to the GDR with a transit Visa and that really was a 'hard border' - only for those with strong nerves ! All others are superficial lines drawn across fields, open countryside, forests and mountain ranges, where it is possible to only control actual roads or railway lines. Do you think that eg. the French can 'control' the Spanish border ? Many years ago, whilst walking the pilgrimage way to Santiago de Compostela we did not know if we were in one country or the other - in one village they spoke French and in the next Spanish (Basque), with nothing in between. Many of Europe's borders are of this nature and terrorists, or other criminals, have always been able to cross them, with or without Schengen. If we start controlling all border stations then the mountain rescue service will have it's work multiplied tenfold.
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The Paris terrorists just used the motorways through Europe to travel to Syria and back. I understand many EU countries have turned their backs on Schengen and imposed the reintroduction of border controls at some or all borders. Clearly they think the Schengen Agreement does not work.
 
We have just had two Russians fly into and out of London who probably caused mayhem. Russia has nothing to do with the EU so they entered the country using the more stringent UK controls. Seeing as this pair have links to the Russian foreign ministry you would have thought they might have received special attention. If the country cannot secure the border against a couple of individuals, what chance of an improvement when everyone has to be checked?
 
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superhorns said:
It is established that the UK has very limited grounds on which to refuse entry to EU citizens. After Brexit hopefully the government will decide on a new policy which would welcome migrants on a proven case-by-case basis rather than the present system of only being able to keep out the very worst offenders due to real a real threat.

The gullible are those like yourself that have unknowingly welcomed terrorists to wreak havoc in our European cities.
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What’s your view on this statement?

“Another common misapprehension is that questions about the border are linked to controlling immigration. In fact immigration is not controlled at the border but at the workplace. Further control is provided by restricting access to the benefits system and to housing”
 
"The UK will require a considerable level of immigration over the next several decades to keep the economy afloat."

Perhaps a view on this statement also could be helpful.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
"The UK will require a considerable level of immigration over the next several decades to keep the economy afloat."

Perhaps a view on this statement also could be helpful.
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This is probably true Frenchie - however, it is deeply flawed when a country needs immigration to balance the books. What is immigration or 'inflow' to you is outflow somewhere else - it means that our country is becoming dependent on other countries partial depopulation. We know that nobody invests in a country with a sinking population - and emigration normally means that their young leave, together with their more 'skilled' and bilingual workers. This can leave a serious deficit in 'sending' countries, and a highly inbalanced population which is left behind. How can a country like Afghanistan rise again if all it's intellectuals and skilled people have gone ? One of the main problems in the former East Germany is that 2 million young people have left the place (around 13 % of the population) - in other countries this diaspora is even more serious and leads to a situation where no recovery is possible. It makes a nonsense of the idea of foreign aid if we are dependent on the depopulation of the countries we are supposed to be helping.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
"The UK will require a considerable level of immigration over the next several decades to keep the economy afloat."

Perhaps a view on this statement also could be helpful.
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You really need to ask the person / organisation that made the statement to justify it. You have already been fooled by much of the project fear so far.
 
The same can be said of you.. But judging by your recent form you can't let yourself consider your own thinking.. Better to stick to the facts really.. And no one as of yet can produce any evidence the country will be better off for at least ten years.. Your own Brexiters admit it.

We need hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.. And that means their families too. Little price to pay as they actually profit the country.. Simple really..

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colognehornet said:
This is probably true Frenchie - however, it is deeply flawed when a country needs immigration to balance the books. What is immigration or 'inflow' to you is outflow somewhere else - it means that our country is becoming dependent on other countries partial depopulation. We know that nobody invests in a country with a sinking population - and emigration normally means that their young leave, together with their more 'skilled' and bilingual workers. This can leave a serious deficit in 'sending' countries, and a highly inbalanced population which is left behind. How can a country like Afghanistan rise again if all it's intellectuals and skilled people have gone ? One of the main problems in the former East Germany is that 2 million young people have left the place (around 13 % of the population) - in other countries this diaspora is even more serious and leads to a situation where no recovery is possible. It makes a nonsense of the idea of foreign aid if we are dependent on the depopulation of the countries we are supposed to be helping.
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Just about everyone we spoke to in the Balkans bemoaned the loss of the young and ambitious people to overseas.. A major problem for their countries..

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superhorns said:
You really need to ask the person / organisation that made the statement to justify it. You have already been fooled by much of the project fear so far.
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The justification is obvious SH. We need to preserve the present balance between working and non working population. If this is not done then the pensions of the future will not be paid - all very simple. It also makes sense that immigration should be relatively short distance. The reason for this being that immigrants from eg. India or Pakistan are more likely to consider the move permanent, than those from Poland. Most Polish migrants to Germany retain close contacts to their homeland (often returning at weekends), send money home, which stimulates their economy - and eventually return before reaching retirement. This is not the case with migration from further afield.
 
colognehornet said:
The justification is obvious SH. We need to preserve the present balance between working and non working population. If this is not done then the pensions of the future will not be paid - all very simple. It also makes sense that immigration should be relatively short distance. The reason for this being that immigrants from eg. India or Pakistan are more likely to consider the move permanent, than those from Poland. Most Polish migrants to Germany retain close contacts to their homeland (often returning at weekends), send money home, which stimulates their economy - and eventually return before reaching retirement. This is not the case with migration from further afield.
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This was the case in every Balkan country we visited.... earners leave, be the doctors, nurses, engineers or fruit pickers, and send money home which benefits their home country......
 
What about all those brits who've retired to live in Spain, all their spending goes into Spanish economy, ironic really as most are daily mail types, who fly silly little flags and demand English food <laugh>
 
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Good to see the PM criticising a senior Tory MP referring to her plan as wrapping a suicide vest around the country and handing the detonator to Brussels. These incoherent rantings do nothing to help negotiations and only serve to ramp up tensions at the most crucial time since the referendum.

Someone should remind this egotistical narcissistic oaf that he's an elected MP and as such has a hell of a lot more responsibility and carries more gravitas than the resident clown in Wetherspoons
 
rudebwoy said:
What about all those brits who've retired to live in Spain, all their spending goes into Spanish economy, ironic really as most are daily mail types, who fly silly little flags and demand English food <laugh>
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And demand English beer - naturally in English, and if the locals (assuming there are some left) don't understand they speak English more loudly <doh>
 
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