There is no doubt in my mind that in BR, we have one of the best coaches to nurture young talent but is this alone driving our transfer policy rather than sometimes just buying plain, old fashioned experience? Sure we bought some interesting talent, but how many will make it in the EPL? There's no guarantee that any of them will be top performers and if recent displays are to go by, most of them definitely won't be that this year!! I know that BR alone does not dictate transfer policy but he sure as hell has the final say.....so is his judgement flawed? He'll be judged on recruitment for sure, is it about to blow up in his face? Of the 25 players bought or loaned by Rodgers in his LFC tenure, only Sturridge and, arguably, Coutinho have been obvious successes and 10 of them are no longer even with the club...either farmed out on loan or sold. That's not a good return by any means. It's fair to say that some of his new acquisitions may yet settle in but there's no guarantee that they ever will. Contrast that to the cherry picking approach that Chelsea employed this close season where they managed to pick up the best finisher and arguably the best midfielder in the league for around £60m. That's good business and both have delivered already in spades. That's just an indication of what experience buys you. We will probably only be able to judge BR's transfer success during NEXT season.....and therein lies our problem. We need them NOW. And the rumour factory continues to link us to every £10-£20m 19 year old in existence! Sure they're only rumours and I am not against buying youth but we need to think about balancing it with experience in our team. I think BR actually came out and said that some time ago.....and then didn't buy any....unless you count Lambert, who is yet to see much game time!! Given what you've seen so far, how are you feeling about LFC's transfer success of late. I don't think any one here will be against buying youth but at what cost and is that in favour of buying quality experience?
It's BR's weakest point as a manager, no doubt. Like you said, buying youthful, promising players is definitely a good thing, but we've done too much of that and too little of buying experienced players who'll go straight into the team and compete.
He's spent £230m in 2 and a bit years, and his only great success has been Sturridge, with arguably Coutinho as another quality acquisition. The rest? meh and more meh, with assorted ****e isn't it? You say he's supposedly a great coach at nurturing young talent, but where the actual evidence of this? Sterling was always going to make it, but what about all the young talent he's bought and then achieved knack all with? Where was this supposed coaching brilliance with that lot? I think his transfer record is beyond poor so far and unless his latest set of signings start finding their feet rapidly, could prove to be his downfall
How many times have we heard about the next best thing coming out of the academy only to fail and be sold to a smaller club? It happens all the time and it's rare that a highly rated youngster actually progresses the way coaches expect. Therefore, your comment on Sterling was 'always going to make it' is just ridiculous. In terms of improving players - you could argue he improved Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge, Coutinho, Henderson, Flanno ...
Early on Rodgers begged the owners to let him sign experienced players but they said no. I reckon he doesnt get any where near as much say as we think. One thing I notice him talk about is how experienced his young signings are for there age. Markovic has played this many games for Benfica, Can played 9 Champions League games last season, Coutinho has been playing at this level since he was 17. I'v noticed this with loads of our signings. He always quotes how much experience they have for their age. I reckon this is actually a thorn in Brendan's side and it may be causing him to focus to much on a young players experience over their character or suitability.
I mostly agree with you but some times you get a talent so good and unique that you can just tell they will make it.
We said the same for the likes of Pacheco and Suso. And I remember Jack Robinson being far more talented than John Flannagan but one is still at the club. ------------------------------------- After finishing 2nd, I reckon Rodgers has a lot more say - the fact he pursued Lallana all summer and was willing to spend £25m highlights this, and £4m for Lambert also. I think Lovren was a committee target because they tried to sign him last season before he joined Soton.
I think nobody will argue that some of his signings haven't panned out yet.....some may never. But few would argue that he got the best out of Suarez (his record wasn't world class when BR arrived) and Sturridge who was a talent but hadn't been able to deliver at the highest level....then their Coutinho, same applies....and Yes, Sterling who could quite easily have faltered (I don't agree that he would always have succeeded).....Add you Flanno to that who imo, played well above his ability for a lengthy period of time......I'd say he's nurtured them pretty well. On the flip side, he's bought a few and they've failed to make the grade......that's not necessarily down to his coaching, it's quite normal (as per my remark with Sterling). Am not convinced on his defensive coaching abilities mind.
Not at all, but I think this season shows exactly what the driving force for that achievement was mate.
although you are probably right in it was mainly down to luis, bit early to judge yet. we have our 2nd best player from last season injured as well and not doing too badly considering we havent hit form yet, and brought in a lot of new faces, we just have to hope they adapt a lot quicker than spurs players managed to. i will judge xmas time, reckon have an idea if this team is going to be good enough for top 4 or not by then i should imagine.
What about Borini, Aspas, Kelly, Wisdom. Allen, Assaidi, Sakho, Sahin, Cissokho, Alberto and Moses? Why did his magic fail there? And it's far from ridiculous to suggest that Sterling was going to make it anyway, he was playing in QPR's youth side at 14, their reserves at 15. It's like saying that Barkley's success is all down to Martinez, is it ****. He may have helped the lad, but he was going to achieve the heights anyway, as he's got bags of talent and a good attitude. Anyway this thread's about his signings, so stay on topic
Few would argue that Suarez was the driving force.....but BR had a big part to play in that! To suggest otherwise would be folly. You just need to look at his previous seasons and you'll see the difference. Same goes for Hendo, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge....and sure if you take your best player out of a team and don't replace him, however good the coach, you'll struggle. This thread merely asks if he (or LFC) have made an error in buying too much youth over experience. I'd suggest that we have made a mistake by not shelling out big money on a proven player.
Some real duffers in there....but not all. Not many real youth players either.....We seem to go for second best when it comes to slightly older, more experienced players. I believe Wisdom has a future at the club. Farming players out on loan is not an indication of their future. Ask David Beckham!!
Well you may be right but we need to have the names up for in, out, and how much to see if there are any patterns or if it is as simple as pass fail. Lets start with in: I'm going to split this into groups: This year which I don't believe can be fairly judged yet. Success, Fail, Young and Loan. I don't believe those marked young can be judged as failures if BR doesn't believe they are ready and bought them with that in mind. I would also discount Loans as the theory is that that is exactly why you buy them i.e. largely risk free, unless you are gambling on a loan you intend to be first team from the start. So IMO: Successes: Sturridge £12M Coutinho £8.6M Allen £15M Mignolet £10M (£39.6M) Sakho £15M Fail: Borini £10M Aspas £7.5M Assaidi £2.4M Toure Free (£19.9M) Youth: Illori £? Alberto £6.8M This Year: Can £9.5M (s) Lallana £25M (s) Lambert £4.5M (f) Markovic£19.8M (f) Lovern £20M (s) Origi £10M (s) Balotelli £16M (£104.8M) (f) (f=£40.3M) (s=£64.5M) Loan: Sahin Cissoko Moses Manquillo So in my opinion the confirmed success failure rate is currently at 50/50 with the failures costing 20M less than the succeses. This confirms what we know. If you buy around the 2-10 million mark they are more likely to be failures. They are also players bought in the first two years with no European football and no European revenue. Sakho I have put in the success column as a personal opinion in that I think he is an improvement on the options that have been let go and I think he will be good..Im almost tempted to put him in the TY column due to the time off with injuries in his first year. BUt feel free to add him to the failure if you want which will balance the money spent to 50/50 aprox as well. Now while I've suggested it's too early to judge this years players I've marked these with a S or F based on how I predict them to turn out. Again I think it will follow the 50/50 success rate both in number of players and money spent that many on here deem as average and dare I say it acceptable for any manager. Now obviously it's all subjective, some would remove Mignolet from the succeses, others Allen. Others don't believe Borini was given a good enough chance so shouldn't be in the failures (I put him there because if the manager tries to sell you then he's thinking he's failed buying you) but over all I don't believe it's as big a failure area as some fear it is. Another way to look at it is the list of players above, compared to the list that he began with but got rid of (being fair to those that left due to age rather than ability I've marked them accordingly) I've also marked specific reasons on a few, The rest in my opinion were let go because they weren't goods enough. Transferred Out: Aurellio Amoo Darby Kuyt (age) Rodriguez (age) Bellamy (Age) Cole Carroll Spearing Adam Eccleston Pacheco Shelvey Reina (burned his bridges) Downing Morgan Kelly Adorjan Coates Peterson Agger (always injured) Robinson Suarez (not really our choice) I think he has viewing transfers only over all definitely brought in better than he sent out.
hang on... lets not be so... general and blase as it lets lads like tobes wum us with this general stuff lets lis tout the players I'm not saying its much good but there is a pattern at play Year 1: Fabio Borini - flop., bought what he knew. Joe Allen - ? some here say he's good. I don't think he's top 4, he's average but best of a bad lot of our current options. Oussama Assaidi - flop surprised at time should've gone in summer. pointless signing Nuri Sahin - Loan. try before you buy or lad neve rinterested. total flop move. hurt rodgers first year Samed Yesil - kid, bad injuries. can't legislate for that Daniel Sturridge - Hit. many injuries though. big bargain really. Philippe Coutinho - hit and miss. very talented but blow hot and cold. young year 2. Luis Alberto - miss, young but doesn't look half good enough. out on loan Iago Aspas - total flop. terrible buy Simon Mignolet - miss. young but not good enough to be to keeper right now. Kolo Toure - free for experience, miss really. kept on fir experience Aly Cissokho - loan.. total waste of time. Tiago Ilori- kid, loaned twice Mamadou Sakho - Miss so far. not getting his game, expensive. Victor Moses - laon total waste of time Basically his year 2 signings were tosh or a kid we don'tknow about. Year 3 Rickie Lambert: miss; I don't see why we'd take him on cos he's so slow. its ok for carling cup.. Adam Lallana; leave out fee. looks decent but light weight. Emre Can 20, CL experience, injured. can't be called Lazar Markovic as per can exact same story but looks out of his depth and needs time. Dejan Lovren: ??? sold a pup on organisation but a decent player Divock Origi: ?? kid, looks good from afar on loan in france but its not england is it. Javier Manquillo: loan: looks half decent and learning Alberto Moreno: fast, yog, can't defend too well. Mario Balotelli: total utter muck and a flop already. Year 3 is a lot of young players and the 4 senior players in lambert, lallana and lovern plus badontelly are not delivering any improvement o nwhat was there The fact is the younger players bought in could be very good in a couple years but rodgers might not be there to see it. He has not in 3 years bought in a senior player bar sturridge who's tops. the younger players are all decent players. but really the STRATEGY as a whole and the reason he was hired was a youth policy so we are buying them in but we are year on year not seeing a return. year one players are the guys who are vtial now... coutinho, sturridge... even allen... all young and bought in to grow. year 2 shows an utter failure in buying policy as we took in very average muck. now year 3 we are looking at 5 yougn lads who next year could be great. thats the issue. maybe lovern, lallana and the like will improve but we are waiting for the young lads and as be got no improvement year 2 we are paying for it right now.
