1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

To Those Who Incessantly Berate Hughton For Being Incompetent

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by royalbarclayfan, Jan 2, 2014.

  1. royalbarclayfan

    royalbarclayfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,996
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    This is what he has to work with....................

    Ruddy - competent keeper when at his best, but who still has not rediscovered his form or confidence from before his long lay off.

    Bunn - good understudy, but that´s all he is.

    Nash - back-up and unlikely to get a game.


    Martin - average Premier League player, reliable and a good team player, solid, but no more than that.

    Whittaker - as above, perhaps needs a longer run in the 1st team before we can really judge, but seems no better than RM.

    Turner - good solid defender, nothing fancy, no frills, knows his job, does it to the best of his average ability.

    Bassong - on his day a classy defender, but this season has shown too many lapses, not a leader and no captain ( but I can´t think of any who could be)

    Bennett R - talented youngster still to prove he´s any better than the two above, came with big potential but still to show it can blossom.

    (Ayala)- on loan at a middling Championship Club, what we saw of him certainly didn´t show him to be any better than Bennett R.

    Olsson - very promising full back, quick and not afraid to maraude forward, establishing himself as 1st choice LB, could become a steady Premier League player.

    Garrido - experienced back up for Olsson, not the quickest feet-wise, but knows the position and the game, inside out.


    Howson - before this ínjury he was beginning to show the kind of form that would establish him as 1st choice in midfield, hardworking, dangerous going forward with a good engine.

    Tettey - injury-prone?, when fit has shown he could be a good Premier League player, but needs to have a season or two out of the treatment room to be of any real benefit to us.

    Johnson - combative fighter who won´t let anyone down, but with limited skill levels, certainly no game-changer.

    Fer - from what we´ve seen, very hot and cold, if his head and heart are in the right place he can be a match winner, but if he performs like he did yesterday, then he´s a liability.

    (Fox) - loaned out to the Championship´s bottom club, enough said, that is his level.


    Snodgrass - ´fair-weather´player with a lethal free-kick, but lacks genuine pace. When the team are going well he blossoms, when things are stormy he tends to go missing, petulant, and has a tendency to throw himself down too easily. Can he put some of the above right, he would become a good Premier League player.

    Bennett E - the complete opposite of Mr. Snodgrass, pacy, industrious, and a good crosser of the ball, I think we´ve missed him, particularly to push Snoddy.

    Pilkington - talented, can be a game-changer, but terribly (too?) injury-prone, just comes back after a spell out and before you know it, he´s out again, maybe a bit of a luxury at this level.

    Redmond - very talented, came with a big reputation from lower League, still to totally convince at this level, but improving all the time.


    Hoolahan - in my opinion, still the only player in the squad who can really change a game with the flick of a toe. Not every opponent will suit him by any means, and he does go missing for long spells, but he has genuine Premier League class when allowed the space to show it.

    Elmander - experienced workhorse, past his best, but can do a job if and when required, steady.

    van Wolfswinkel - came from a League where chances were plentiful and defences were poorer than here, still taking time to adjust, his injury prolonged the settling in time, am convinced he will come good.

    Hooper - same as above in many ways, is now beginning to show he can, and will score on a regular basis, if given the right service.

    Becchio - back up, not perhaps given many chances to shine, but when he has had the occasional chance, he´s done nothing, average at best.

    (Josh Murphy) - can only be expected to get a cameo appearance in this League, every now and again, big future if he continues to progress.


    Many months ago I came to the conclusion, that with the players we have, (and if all those players can stay fit), we would comfortably be able to compete around the lower-middle area of the PL. And summarising the squad here today, and from what I´ve seen so far this season, nothing has changed my mind on that. Given that we have had an abundance of serious injuries to contend with, I would say that it´s been more than a praiseworthy achievement by Hughton and his team to have so far kept us clear of the relegation spots. Goodness knows whether McNally and the Board are of the same sort of thinking, but personally I have full faith in them to make the right decisions for the best of the Club, we´ve certainly no reasons to doubt him, as since McNally´s been here he´s hardly put a foot wrong.

    We´ve just come through the hardest couple of weeks in the season, still with several players out injured, and we´re still points clear of the bottom three. I think with the squad we have, we should be more than happy with where we are.

    Here´s to a 2014 still in the Premier League.
     
    #1
  2. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    16,235
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    To play devils advocate, the relentless defence of CH is equally as boring to those slating him (when you are of the opposite opinion), so fairly pointless. Only one thing (maybe two) will change the minds of those that want to see the back of the manager - an improvement in results (especially at home), more style about the game.

    It is very probable that we will get neither for the remainder of the season, so the arguments will rage on, and get even more boring <ok>
     
    #2
  3. tipsycanary

    tipsycanary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,852
    Likes Received:
    30
    Good post, and agree with most of your assessments. People will point to the money we have spent, but the way football now is that has to be done in order to continue competing. We spent a lot for us, but by prem standards not much at all! You look at how many teams who have a signed a player for 10 mil plus or the top teams who have spent as much on one player as we have on a team. It is going to be a tough scrap in the lower half of the league, although I do feel we are not one of the worst 3 sides. I guess many fans find the football boring therefore want CH and point to results as a reason. Although if we were playing exciting football but found ourselves in the same position, same points and goal difference people would still not be happy. We have to be realistic and sadly football is a sport where money matters (I don't like it but it's true) so staying in the prem has to be the clubs number one aim. Substance over style, even is some fans don't approve.
     
    #3
  4. Tony_Munky_Canary

    Tony_Munky_Canary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    5,949
    Likes Received:
    964
    Great post RBF, nice to read a slice of realism after yet more tirades of unrealistic, negative whinging - can't say I disagree with any of what you've posted <applause>
     
    #4
  5. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    17,327
    Likes Received:
    8,160
    Agreed, but then Thai makes an equally valid point, depending on the fullness of each reader's glass. And if anyone can honestly say they feel secure when the gap to 18th place has narrowed to 3 points from 5 or 6 three weeks ago then I'd like a pint of whatever they're drinking <yikes>
     
    #5
  6. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,385
    Likes Received:
    3,724

    I agree with your two points, but I must say I don't get the second one properly. If we were winning these sorts of games and doing better at home, there would be no complaints about the style because the style is actually quite nice at the moment.

    I think complaints about the style of our play are memories of last season's dross, without due consideration for what is actually being played out in front of us. Our style is really quite decent now. Not perfect, especially in Pulis-style conditions yesterday, but still a massive improvement on last season.

    A good friend of mine is a Villa fan and despite a decent away win at Sunderland he was absolutely seething with jealousy about our "passing style" I was astonished, but then we had streams up of both matches on laptops and it was quite clear that Lambert's "lump it up to Benteke and hope" is a long, long way from our game at the moment.


    Our only problem is that we are not getting good results which in my opinion is down to two things:
    (1) we keep making extremely silly mistakes at the back (not just Fer's penalty, but throughout the game our full-backs made poor passes and our wingers gave the ball away in dangerous positions - these happen to all teams but ours with ominous regularity and the telling stat was the one provided the other week that we have given away more gifted goals than any other team (16 as opposed to the nearest challengers, Swansea, with 13). Our defence is well-organised, but we seem to have a few headless chickens and poor passers
    (2) We simply need more creativity up front. Hoolahan on form is perfect for this, but we only seem able to rely on him in about one game in four. Without him and/or Howson our movement is entirely predictable.
     
    #6
  7. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    16,235
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    The 'style' has improved slightly in recent weeks, or at least attempts are being seen, but it the other aspect that you have added that are hampering these attempts - silly mistakes. What the answer to that is, I have no idea. Keeping a better shape at the back might help, better passing would be a big bonus too <ok>
     
    #7
  8. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    16,836
    Likes Received:
    5,767
    I think confidence, and replacing Johnson and Redmond with Tettey and Pilks in a fortnight's time would help with both elements.
     
    #8
  9. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    16,235
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Are they both close to being ready then?
     
    #9
  10. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,385
    Likes Received:
    3,724
    I think "improved slightly" is a huge understatement. I would say the style has been noticeably improved since the very start of the season. Yes, we have had some dreadful games, but it has been the woeful defending and passing that has been the problem - if anything I would say we needed more hoofball in some of the matches because our defenders are trying to play it out the back and not being good enough!

    I am surprised that people still think style is a problem - my major gripes with Hughton are: (1) tactical inflexibility; (2) inconsistent ability to motivate the players; and (3) individual player instruction. None of those are related to style.

    Better passing seems to be the key - I hope we sign an ACM/winger who can pass really crisply - I still have this feeling that Butterfield would have been perfect it's just such a shame that he couldn't settle/never recovered from his injury while here.
     
    #10

  11. DHCanary

    DHCanary Very Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    16,836
    Likes Received:
    5,767
    I believe they are both a couple of weeks off, possibly not in time for the trip to Everton, but in contention for Hull I hope.
     
    #11
  12. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,385
    Likes Received:
    3,724

    I have to say the one positive I took from this Christmas is that Johnson does seem back to his best - his positioning is fantastic and he is a real battleaxe - the games where we have dominated in midfield are where he has marshalled and our defence already looks more solid with him in front than it ever did with Tettey. Tettey's passing is much better and he is effective going forward, but his positioning is so wayward it can leave us really exposed. Tettey's return gives us a relief in the form of rotation, but I don't expect him to win his place back quickly, nor do I think he deserves it. Johnson playing short passes is good enough, and would be massively helped if our right-backs would be a bit more helpful with what they distribute. Howson's all round energy will also take some of the pressure off Johnson to try to pull off some of the vision he shows without the ability to execute it regularly.

    As you say though, Pilks back will be huge. Olsson looks twice the player when Pilks is ahead of him, and Pilkington really is an all-rounder. He is quietly our most effective player, it's such a shame he gets injured so regularly. His ability to pass and keep possession has been hugely missed and I am positive will (without us really noticing) make a massive difference. When's he back? Not soon enough
     
    #12
  13. canary_max

    canary_max Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    5,659
    Likes Received:
    45
    one factor that i think is not considered enough and the impact it has on our results and performances, especially in the wider media, is injuries. we must have had the most apart from West Ham. And everytime i hear about west ham it's their injuries! Ours have been as bad but it doesn't get a mention. This (the midefield) is down to the bare bones right now.

    edit: the discussion around pilks, i don't want to be negative but when he comes back how long until he gets injured again?
     
    #13
  14. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    8,230
    Excellent post RBF, and I think you've got it about right. Like you, I think we'll see far more from RvW in the rest of the season, hopefully starting this Saturday. I also thought we saw a new side to Hooper yesterday with his excellent pull-back to Johnson for the goal. As for Pilks and Tettey being injury prone, my answer would be to add new players in both positions so that injuries could be covered. I hope DH is right about them being ready within a fortnight. My other wish would be for a goal-scoring ACM in this window. Then CH's 'competence' could improve dramatically! :wink:
     
    #14
  15. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,385
    Likes Received:
    3,724
    There is a chart here which shows the number of players lost to injury by the matches missed:
    http://injuryleague.com/

    I've no idea how accurate it is (I would question it, just thinking purely about our injuries, given that e.g. Bennett has already missed 20), but you can see we are only half way down. That doesn't sound too bad, but what the chart doesn't show is:
    (a) the seniority of the player injured (much worse being a first teamer than a squad member)
    (b) how bad the combination of injuries is (e.g. two right wingers is much worse than a right winger and a left fullback)
    (c) consider the position of the player (e.g. I would argue that an injured striker is worse than an injured centre-back)

    In terms of all three of (a), (b) and (c), I would say we have suffered substantially more than most, but West Ham have also suffered badly because of the loss of Andy Carroll. I find it interesting that Allardyce is criticised for not signing another striker, whereas Hughton has not received much criticism for our restricted squad, but I don't think that's necessarily fair on Allardyce - these are things you can't always predict and the financial restraints are not clear from the outside. I would say our injury problems are understated in the media, but then everything about us is.

    A fair point.
     
    #15
  16. ThaiCanary

    ThaiCanary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    16,235
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    While I accept a, b & c are not taken in to consideration, for me it does knock the 'we have loads of injuries' argument on the head. It is a squad game, or so we are told when the team is rotated. Seeing Arsenal at the top of that list makes their lofty position and achievements so far this season being very commendable.
     
    #16
  17. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    14,383
    Likes Received:
    4,633
    I think the injuries we have suffered are really beginning to show. To have Howson and Tettey out at the same time is a real blow and I feel is hampering Fer's game as a result, as he is being played in a slightly different role and having to lie deeper. IMO, we were playing our best football when we had a midfield triumvirate of Tettey, Fer and Howson. I agree that Pilks does seem injury prone. Hoolahan on his day can be a match winner, but had he just looked up before shooting against ManUre, he would have seen an unmarked Hooper on his right, but there doesn't seem to be an option just now.

    I'm disappointed in that we've picked up[ so few points over the last few games, but apart from the debacle against Fulham, I feel the team has played as well as it can and so I'm more inclined to keep with CH and hope for some more positive play from the team, as at the end of the day, it is down to the players to actually turn up and play by closing down the opposition and not giving them acres of space in which to play and pass the ball.
     
    #17
  18. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    14,383
    Likes Received:
    4,633
    Especially so when they were thumped by Villa on the opening day and their fans were calling for Wenger's head!!!! Now, he 'walks on water'!!!!
     
    #18
  19. royalbarclayfan

    royalbarclayfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    5,996
    Likes Received:
    1,039
    Touché and point taken, I´m not for one minute suggesting that this appraisal of things is the right one, just airing my own views. It´s also been given to illustrate the reason, that unlike many on here, I can perfectly easily accept the position we find ourselves in, and to a certain extent also be content with some of the performances, because with the players we have available at the moment, we just aren´t an awful lot better than this.
     
    #19
  20. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    11,385
    Likes Received:
    3,724
    I don't think it can knock it on the head at all - we have without a doubt seriously suffered for injuries, and more than most, but it at least puts it in perspective.

    I'm afraid that Arsenal are not a fair comparison because they have a 20% bigger squad than us (meaning more players to get injured) and getting on for half of those "points" can be attributed to the likes of Frimpong, Diaby and Sanogo... not convinced they would get much game time anyway (and the same applies to Liverpool, Man U, etc.) Our comparison should be with clubs around our level - you notice that Fulham's, West Ham's and Villa's injury problems have been well documented, and they are ahead of us. Crystal Palace's are interesting - certainly they were missing a lot of players at the beginning of the season, but also not all first teamers. I am also interested by West Brom's. However, you will also see that several teams our level are below us and the likes of Cardiff really have been fortunate.
     
    #20

Share This Page