My apologies if this belongs in another thread, and I am more than happy if the mods declare it off limits, but I note two stories relating to footballers choosing not to wear a poppy on their shirts. The poppy fetish seems to be a modern phenomena. Anyone who pops up on the news seems to have to be adorned with one. Failure to wear one shows callous disrespect for those who have been killed or injured in various conflicts, it seems. I am not sure why James McLean of Stoke declined to wear one on Saturday. Despite the eloquence of his statement, I don't fully comprehend Nemanja Matic's logic. However I'm not sure he should need to justify the decision as the question remains as to why anyone feels that a Premiership footballer has to be a poppy wearer. Just interested in the thoughts of others.
It's a personal choice imho, and if I see someone that isn't wearing one it doesn't even register to be honest. I certainly wouldn't point the finger at them for not wearing/wearing one as it's none of my business. I don't tend to wear one myself, but I usually make a donation. From my own point of view, I consider the way that our soldiers were betrayed and sent out to die during WW1 by their officers was completely shameful and it's a period of history that I don't like to think about too much. The idea of remembering the dead is a noble one however the idea of remembering the dead without any consideration that it was our own government and ruling classes that caused so many of the deaths sits badly during this nationally institutionalised remembrance period
Well, my grandfather was gassed in the trenches during World War 1 (died 2 years later as a result), and my father grew up in an orphanage where it was considered automatic that they went to the army on leaving (nowhere else to go to) and he lost an eye in World War 2. So theoretically I should wear a poppy - but have never done so, or even thought about it. When my grandfather went off to the Somme he did not even have voting rights (along with two thirds of those who died) - this was the great esteem these men had at the time ! My father was promised a land fit for heroes upon his return, but it never happened. The honours could, and should, have come then - but it was just expected that working class fodder would go back to being just that afterwards. Looking back over all the wars which Britain has fought, we were only really justified in 2 of them, but the poppy stands for all our dead - including those in colonial engagements where we had no right to be anyway - or in playing second fiddle to uncle Sam. Also - why a poppy for the soldiers, when the majority of the dead were civilians ? So no poppy for me, but i am happy to give my money to an old man (whether ex soldier or not).
No one should have to wear a poppy....to insist that they do would deny them the freedom that all those men and women died for. However, people do make the mistake of believing they stand for glorifying war....far from it. It's recognising sacrifice and remembering not only those that died but all those that served....especially in the two World Wars. People who forget history are doomed to relive it.
Agreed on both points. My father served in both wars as it happens - being a little boy bugler in WW1, bless! I wear a poppy as a member of a generation who were not conscripted to fight as my father's generation were, and I am thankful for the fact that I have never been asked to take up arms. However, I think no less of a non-poppy wearer than I think more of a garlanded wearer - you know the car, the dog all bedecked. As you say, it is a choice. So back to my question, why are footballers made to feel obliged to sport one on their kit?
I guess when 12 year old Matic's village was being bombed in 1999 he may have thought, they have forgotten
As to the question, no one should be forced to wear a poppy or made to feel guilty for not wearing one. I always buy one, although I am thinking about getting a permanent metal badge rather than one of the ones with a plastic stem because it’s a sad bit of plastic waste once we’re past Remembrance Day. That, of course, is a whole different argument! I wear one to remember all those killed in wars, soldiers and civilians, British, German, and all nationalities, because, as Siegfried Sassoon memorably said: “War is hell, and those who institute it are criminals.” Yes, we had to fight Hitler, but he could and should have been stopped in 1936 when he annexed the Rhineland. Every war since WWII has been unnecessary and criminal, but that doesn’t mean the soldiers or civilians killed don’t deserve to be remembered. But it’s all personal choice, which is something we should certainly celebrate still having!
If we really want to honour those who died in war, and try to prevent it all happening again, wouldn't it be better to put pressure on the weapons industry to stop them exporting their weapons throughout the entire World, rather than wearing useless imitation flowers which helps nobody ?
The money raised by selling poppies helps disabled ex-servicemen and women, but I agree with your main point.
Supporting disabled servicemen and their families by contributing money to the Poppy Appeal and being anti-war is not mutually exclusive.
This is worth a read. Prime Minister Lloyd George wanted the armistice to start at 14.30, instead of 11.00, so that he could announce it in Parliament. The iconic 11/11/11 wouldn’t exist if Admiral Sir Rosslyn Wemyss hadn’t gone over his head, to the king, to have the armistice announcement made earlier, thus saving more lives that would have been lost had the war been extended by a further 3.5 hours. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hero-sir-rosslyn-wemyss-saved-13534037
I don’t generally care if people wear one or not , I don’t wear one myself as such but I will always go out my way to buy one if I see them on offer so to speak.
The problem with McClean is the guy supports the IRA and even gave a IRA quote. I don't care if you wear a poppy or not, but you are obviously going to get a reaction if you shill for terrorists
But in modern times people need to be OUTRAGED by something. It is disgusting, disgraceful or disrespectful if they do not adhere to public opinion whatever their circumstances or beliefs.
He grew up on the Creggan estate in Derry, where six of the victims of Bloody Sunday also came from. To communities like that, the IRA were freedom fighters, and the British Army were the terrorists. We are all products of our environments to some extent.
Nope supporting terrorist is a nah. I don't support what the British army was allowed to do either, hence why I don't wear a poppy until **** like that is called out. Soon as you support a terrorist group or a crime by troops you will get called out. He makes it worse by using quotes by the IRA. Matic is another who chooses not to wear a poppy and isn't dumb and gave a clear valued reason. He didn't start hyping up terrorist or what his country was doing
it’s a shame that this debate is being had, but I think it’s the direct kick back to the recent over commercialization of the poppy in the last decade. I don’t know which football club started the poppy on shirts thing and I have no doubt it was well intentioned, but because of the good press it received we’ve seen the symbol adopted by seemingly every company/corporation in more and more extravagant ways, in a kind of grief posturing and like Christmas. The original meaning has been muffled by the noise
This was never a massive issue before...people on TV wore poppies, but there was no pressure on other people to wear them (though many did). I think we just live in a world of social media now....where people are poised to be outraged. At one time people were stupid and shouty in their own homes or pubs....now they have the world as their audience....and they can wind up thousands of people and not just a handful.
