Two goals between them in their last 16 collective appearances. That's one in eight for each of them. Darren O'Dea's got a better record than that. Time for the lone striker to be brought back, whether that's Becchio or Forssell. These two aren't cutting it at the moment and need reminding that a starting place is earnt, not guaranteed. The peril of the 4-4-2 is the reliance on the strikers doing their bit and in our last six games, we've averaged only a goal a game. We were averaging two a game earlier in the season. We're still in a good position, but this is a necessary tweak in my opinion. McCormack and Keogh OUT!
i disagree, i'd consider maybe dropping mccormack for forssell but really that shoulda been done a couple games ago to give him a rest rather than drop him and mean that he loses confidence. The lone striker doesnt work for me, i said it the whole of last season as well. It doesnt work, 4-4-2 is far superior and is working better. Not only that but it suits our playing staff better as well. Without gradel, the 4-2-3-1 doesnt work as well.
I think Sam would do well enough on the left wing in a 4-2-3-1, and it'd be nice to see Howson able to go forward. We'd have to have Brown or Varynen alongside Clayton and it's anybody's guess how that would work out. Maybe not worth going 4-2-3-1, but it may be worth going 4-4-2 and starting Becchio. After a couple of underwhelming substitute appearances he looked bright on Sunday when he came on. I don't have any faith in Forsell at all. If we're going to put Becchio up in a 4-4-2 it's going to either be with McCormack or Nunez. Even play Howson up there, he's a good mover when he wants to be and a ****ing cracking finisher. He's also got a lot more strength this season than I saw last season.
No, i dont think changing the team dramatically is what is needed. By replacing both the front 2, your changing it dramatically. What we need to do is rotate the team better, not replace anyone. 1 Game give Howson a rest, another game, give mccormack a rest and so on. Dont replace them indefinitely. The team we played against leicester is pretty much our strongest team (bar lees and lonergan) and should remain so for most games. Grayson just needs to freshen things up sometimes.
I don't see many changes being made for Burnley. I expect O'Brien to be on the bench with Lees and Kisnorbo starting. Other than that, same team as Leicester providing Snoddy's leg injury isn't serious.
Yea thats what im hoping for. I dont think we should start bringing in becchio and nunez and start changing things up, especially on the back of a good result
Not on the back of a good result. Might be worth a try against Barnsley at home, however. Freshen things up against a team that's struggling could be just the ticket. Teams like that only pose a threat because they come to ER knowing if they come at us and have a go they have a chance of getting something - when they are lacking in quality they are relying on exploiting weaknesses in a team they'll have studied. Change the team, take that away.
I think the team possibly needs a bit of a change now, I'd be up for returning to 4-2-3-1 and bringing Sam and Becchio in, moving Pugh into the middle. No doubt Keogh and McCormack is a great partnership, but it's one that relies on McCormack banging the goals in, changing to 4-2-3-1 brings Sam, Howson and Snoddy into the picture for goals aswell as Luc.
A 4-4-2 relies so heavily on the strikers. Not many teams with a 4-4-2 have midfielders who score a lot of goals. The centremidfielders have to sit back more, and the wingers are less involved in goal scoring opportunities. When we were in League One, we could count of Beckford to hit 30 + goals, and Becchio/Kandol alongside him eased the pressure on him, because they got their fair share of goals. However, the partnership of McCormack and Keogh relies heavily on just McCormack. Keogh´s not a finisher, and he will realistically only get 5 goals a season. His link up play is great, but he can´t score. He´s linked up well so far with McCormack, but when Ross isn´t scoring, Keogh´s basically worthless. The 4-2-3-1 that we played less season was more flexible and our midfielders got involved more. This got the best out of Gradel obviously, but Snodgrass and Howson created more and get into more goalscoring positions. Last season we had Johnson and Kilkenny, but Clayton would be much better than they were in this formation. Our best players are midfielders, so we should be giving them the best chance to attack. Have Clayton and Pugh in the 2 CM positions. Howson behind the striker, with Snodgrass and either Nunez or Sam on the left, with Becchio up front.
Like Best Fans says, the 4-2-3-1 means we get goals from all over the attack rather than relying on one goalscoring striker (McCormack/Beckford/whoever). What's so bad about 4-2-3-1? It gives us the chance to put Howson/Nunez in their natural position, Pugh to his alongside Clayton and try reintroduce a bit of pace with Lloyd Sam. He can be our next Gradel if he works hard enough. We could even play McCormack on the wing if we had to - his delivery has impressed me quite a lot so far. 4-4-2 means the central midfielders constantly have the onus of defending on their minds due to being so exposed. Howson gives us an extra line of pressure in midfield which means Clayton and Pugh - while still having defensive duties - can also be given licence to get forward more and do their thing. I reiterate those stats in the original post - 1 goal in 8 for each of McCormack and Keogh. Half our usual goal average in the last six games. It's blatantly a formation which isn't working well enough. Last season, that was the formation that made things click and won us most of our points. It's the one that nearly all top teams are using. What's so terrible about it?!
I think it would get the best out of all our players, whereas the 4-4-2 only really gets the best out of McCormack. Last season we had a crap defence but a great attack. This season, the defence hasn't improved in a 4-4-2, but goals have decreased. Clearly there's an argument for 4-2-3-1. We've got 2 better CMs in Pugh and Clayton than last season's pairing, Nunez could play behind the striker or only the left (which isn't the same position where he didn't impress in a 4-4-2, he'd have more freedom to roam from it into the centre).
I'd say overall the defence has improved. The drubbing against Blackpool didn't help, but I was thinking and I actually think we have a first choice back 5 where every player's good (if Kissa's resurgance in form continues).
i still disagree, i think our general shape is better in 4-4-2. We defend better and we do things as a unit. Not only this, with the amount of work that is going on behind the scenes on defending, that would be pretty much thrown away with changing the formation that dramatically. I still think last season our main issue with conceding goals was our midfield. They also ran straight through the middle and i think it got figured out by other teams in the second half of the season. You all say that in the current formation we rely on mccormack scoring goals but in 4-2-3-1 we rely on the lone striker to be able to hold the ball up (which personally i'd still play keogh instead of becchio in this formation). The issue that i saw last season in that formation was that the ball would go up to becchio, half the time it wouldn't be near him because he is having to make up the ground of 2 players, not 1. If he did get it, he would lose it or give away a foul or something, then the ball would just come right back at us and we'd be defending again. We struggled to get out of defence at times last season
While it is true we hold our shape better in 4-4-2, we are far more creative in 4-2-3-1. Leave ourselves exposed, yes, but going forward we were always switching things up and moving quickly, fluidly and with flexibility, taking teams off guard and essentially disintegrated defenses.
as i said, you can make small changes but i dont think there is a massive issue yet, we shoulda rested mccormack a few games back for a game to bring him back down to earth. make small changes, dont change a team dramatically, keep the same formation. A player swapped here and there but only ever a max of 2 a game. squad rotation is the key, you cant just change the whole system coz your strikers havnt scored in a few games
With hindsight I think getting rid of Johnson was a mistake. He wasn't amazing in central mid but he was far from terrible and put in a shift. I think he'd be a great workhorse to go alongside Clayton in a 4-2-3-1, with Clayton providing more creative stuff to feed Howson and the wingers.
Ideally we'd have players on the pitch who would work effectively in either formation - with McCormack we have that option as he's effective both on the wing and up front. With this information in mind we should be starting 4-2-3-1 every game and going straight at whoever we are playing. If we lose posession and come under the kosh a bit we can switch into a 4-4-2 easily and play a slower, more solid game. McCormack and Pugh provide that flexibility, all we need to know now is can McCormack score goals in a 4-4-2 while partnered with Becchio?
