Hi all, I'm imagining you've already seen this BBC article, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12499373 but I just thought I'd concentrate on the views of Mr Tilke, he says: "Often the faster race car drives in front of the slower car, which is then the reason for not overtaking and not the design of the circuit. Some circuits allow for good overtaking opportunities. For example, the new Hockenheimring and Spa Francorchamps; these races are often exciting and entertaining for the spectators" Whilst I think he had input into the redesign of Hockenheim, it seems odd that he remarks on Spa being good for overtaking, and makes no effort to emulate some of the key features of the track. The article states (without a direct quote to prove it), that Tilke thinks overtaking should remain difficult, but why, when everyone involved in the sport wants a non-artificial way to improve racing?? However, its interesting to see that the designer of the new Silverstone section is bidding against Tilke Engineering for some projects, so hopefully we'll see some new ideas being incorporated into tracks in the future, especially as Tilke is receiving quite a media lashing at the moment. Fingers crossed anyway! Thoughts people?
∆ 1 I completely agree that overtaking should remain difficult in F1. This makes it a much greater achievement and therefore avoids trivialising it into relative insignificance. However, clearly a balance needs to be struck to placate an often ignorant audience who are less likely to appreciate the finer subtleties of the sport as a whole. ∆ 2 I am very pleased that Tilke is at last being challenged by other agencies!
The Arena section of Silverstone is brilliant; fast, challenging and presents overtaking opportunities (Vettel alone pulled off a few through there). Hopefully the chap who designed it can nick some of Tilke's work.
With regards your first point cosicave, is it often said that Spa is an easy track to overtake at? Normally people say its possible, and over the years the better drivers are the ones who've been able to overtake there. Spa isn't so easy to overtake at that its like NASCAR, the balance is right. So why not try and copy the key features? If the tracks get to the point of being too easy to overtake at, you simply allow the teams to run a bit more aero until a balance is obtained which everyone is happy with. Its far easier to reduce overtaking with the rules than to increase it, without the racing becoming too artificial. I'm glad too that Tilke has some competition - finally! I'm sure most architects would jump at the chance to design tracks, so I'm surprised how he's managed to monopolise it so long.
DHCanary: I agree that overtaking at Spa is very difficult for modern F1 cars. So in this sense, I am inclined to disagree with Tilke. (I have not read the article myself yet; only your appraisal of it; for which I would like to thank you. My personal opinion is that Tilke has been 'out of touch' for some time, but I'm surprised to hear of him including Spa as one of the tracks where overtaking is more likely! In my opinion, it's not!
competition between designers will hopefully improve the quality of track design. I can't believe all new tracks are designed by the same person, surely that makes them all to similar.
What has really annoyed me about Tilke's designs recently is the copying of good corners from elsewhere. Looking at the new Austin circuit the Silverstone-like section is very obvious. I've also seen the turn 8 from Istanbul in the new Indian grand prix circuit. (If people want references to support these, I can dig them out from somewhere. If Tilke is that short on ideas, why doesn't he let someone else have a go??
I wouldn't mind if he copied corners where we don't currently go racing (the corkscrew at Laguna Seca for example) but copy corners we already see is pointless. They might as well race the good tracks twice. Another example is turns one and two at Istanbul, which are the same as Interlagos but somehow lack the drama.
The corkscrew would be fantastic. I think it might be too iconic to get away with though. Saying that, the new Indian circuit is supposed to include a lot of steep hills in the first sector, so something similar may have found its way in there. I've not seen any pics/videos of the circuit (I don't think its completed yet!) to confirm this though.
To defend Tilke a little is there not some rules by the FIA banning too much gradient change, or did I dream that? Still don't like Tilkes monopoly on track design.
Hey, do you reckon we can design one with the collective talent of a forum and submit it to Bernie? I've heard Vietnam are after a track.
The Silverstone track has been changed again, well, it's being completed. The main grandstand and paddock at the new section are pretty much finished and that will be the new pit straight, which means the first corner is the first of the new section, which should be flat out and is quite narrow, which should be interesting. There's no doubt Spa is a fantastic track, and Tilke is way to arrogant to ignore the fact that his tracks are essentially, useless. They have no flow to them (Abu Dhabi, Singapore) and the only one that I like has copied features from other tracks (Korea). I hope this battle between the Silverstone designer goes to him, because his track actually worked, and the races last year proved that
Yeah, Abbey is going to be turn one. The actual track is the same though, I'm going there next month for a track day thing, can't wait to see the new pit complex, it should be finished by then, or at least approaching it.
Probably the best place in Britian for a track day, though Rockingham looks good! I'll be going to the race, but since the change, we don't know the best place to sit/stand
Well we know where the best place would be - a Mclaren on pole! (However unlikely it'll be that either of our English drivers manage it)
I'd recommend Abbey, it'll probably be the most expensive though. The corner really challenges the drivers, a lot of them run wide there, obviously on the first lap it's going to be the best spot now the start line has moved. I'm just going for the Friday this year, might try the Becketts, Maggots, Chapel complex. I haven't watched from there since I was about 6.
Onboard lap of the not606 circuit: "...cross the start line and its a short run down to the El_Bando bend, a long right hander. Accelerate hard out of it down the hill and hit the brakes hard for Manny's, a tight hairpin. A glancing left through Lorca's and its a run down to the Ernie esses, a quick right left combination. Then round the Brightlampshade bend before entering the cosicave. Emerging into the sunlight, the drivers are immediately hard on the brakes for Canary Corner. The sportydan straight is an opportunity for drivers to close in on the car ahead before the braking zone of McWilliams. A short straight is interrupted by the AG Chicane, then its round Jonah's and back on to the main straight." ...wow, you can really tell I don't want to be writing a lab report right now!
