Thugs?

BSG

BSG

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2011
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I know it is only the start of the season and we have only played two games, so this may be a knee-jerk reaction, but with we have been issued with 10 yellows and 1 red card already this season. So are we a team of thugs or just commited to the cause 100%?

I for one am glad of the new fighting spirit of the team, for too long we have been a lightweight team who were bullied by the big and physical side who seem to be two a penny in the lower two divisions.

You can't play your way out of this division you need to fight, scrap and grind out results which this team looks capable of doing. This side reminds me alot of the "silk and steel" side which came runners up in 95-96 season, the similarities are striking, we had two big, strong centrebacks in Green and Bulter (now Framps and Shaggy), tough tacking holding midfielder Dave Martin gave extra bite in midfield (Jack Payne) but we also had a touch of creativity in the likes of Mark O'Connor (Whelpdale / Rooney) which meant we weren't too one dimensional.

So am I worried about the bookings, not at all, every team needs a steely side and I think we have it by the bucket load.
 
We are showing determination and that we will not be beaten easy even by bigger teams and that we are better than what level we are playing at. Good times for us at the moment.
 
The team needs all those battling qualities BSG mentions but many of the cards have been avoidable. Keep collecting them and we will lose matches through suspensions. There can be no defence for a Gillingham forward doing two footed tackles in the opposition penalty area. That is sheer stupidity and nothing to do with commitment. Jack Payne's booking last night was one of the crudest unnecessary trips imaginable. He deserved a red and again it was stupidity not commitment.
 
It is not good getting yellow cards as it don't leave a good image on us but in the past we have been quiet weak, they need to knuckle down just a bit and then we will be great, I think it may just be that it is the start of the season and they are settling in and are just starting to get back to full match fitness as after the season break they have lost fitness so they are gaining it back at the same time with composure.
 
Bristol makes a good point, some cards have been avoidable. I don't think many fans are critical of the occassional mistimed tackle or overzealous challenge in the heat of battle, but I agree sometimes players go over the top,but some times you need to be cynical and take one for the team. The bookings that really get me are the ones for dissent, Lawrence talked himself into the book saturady and Martin did likewise last night.
 
It's ones for dissent that annoy me. Arguing with the ref gets you a cheap card for nothing,and they all add up to suspension.Refs rarely change their mind after giving a decision unless the lino intervenes. all players do mis timed challenges and sometimes that will be a yellow, but if the team as a whole keep their gobs shut,then that will drastically cut down on the yellows. Also to keep arguing as Lawrence and some of the others do, just winds the ref up,and then they're looking to book you. Hess never learnt that lesson for the whole of his career,so I don't suppose theres much chance of his team doing it.
 
I do have to agree arguing with the ref is one of the stupidest ways for a player to get a card, they should just leave alone as the ref will not change their minds often so it is not worth it. We don't want players getting up to 10 cards or the dreaded 15 as that would be stupid.
 
To be able to kick lumps out of teams and then also outplay them will be a recipe for success. Its a mans game afterall (Or was till we started playing in Pink) <doh>
 
Fouls
Brighton 7 Gillingham

say that the ref must have something to do with it. not saying that all the yellows we've picked up this season were undeserved, fullers last night and s.payne's very lucky boy. however some of the ones for decent have been silly and come from a culmination of all the players constantly saying something to the ref, although to be fiar i'd have been giving both of the refs we've had so far a piece of my mind with some of the decisions.

not thugs by any means as jack payne's have both been for "taking one for the team" tackles if i remember correctly
 
BSG said:
You can't play your way out of this division you need to fight, scrap and grind out results which this team looks capable of doing. This side reminds me alot of the "silk and steel" side which came runners up in 95-96 season, the similarities are striking, we had two big, strong centrebacks in Green and Bulter (now Framps and Shaggy), tough tacking holding midfielder Dave Martin gave extra bite in midfield (Jack Payne) but we also had a touch of creativity in the likes of Mark O'Connor (Whelpdale / Rooney) which meant we weren't too one dimensional.
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Sorry, but I beg to differ. In 2009-10 Rochdale finished third (in fact only getting 4 points from their last 9 games, so were well in contention for second until latish on) and picked up only 34 yellows and 3 reds in league games, plus 2 yellows from 4 cup games, so a total of 36 yellows and 3 reds from 50 games. In fact two players accounted for a total of 13 yellows and 2 reds.

Last season, in L1 which it could be argued is a more difficult league to play in, they achieved their joint best ever position (9th) with a total of 38 yellows and 2 reds in 46 league games.

Whilst of course individual players are (usually) responsible for the cards they pick up, the style of play and discipline of the team is ultimately determined by the manager. In general players pick up yellow cards because of inadequate skills for the level of football they are playing.

It's far too early to call a trend for a whole season, so let's call this my marker.
 
Our lads are made of steel this season from what I've seen from the two games so far.

I think we should also look at the positives, that when Lawrence got booked, he walked away and did not argue with the ref, much improved on the Cheltenham game, Lawrence will never let his man get away from him but showed he will accept the punishment dealt.

Fuller and J Payne followed in the same way last night, however, we need to remember we were up against a Championship.

Ok, it was a costly night out but it was only one particular dubious penalty that showed us that door.

Hopefully when we get a few more games in, the lads will have calmed down, let's face it we are unlikely to encounter this sort of opposition in league two, we need to remember, the steel balls we showed on Saturday, earned us the 3 points.

Thugs definitely not, committed yes and if it means we pick up another 3 points on Saturday, I'm all for powering our way out of this league.
 
Vinney makes a good point with regard to Hessy. Great player as he was, he never learned any sense when it came to dealing with and reacting to refs. In the absence of an assistant the players will have no "wise head" to balance Hessy's over-enthusiasm. I wonder if the glut of yellow cards, most of which have been deserved, are linked to the absence of Hendon?
I do rate Hessy highly and commitment has always been his ace card but he has always needed someone whispering a bit of common sense when he gets carried away and I cannot see who is doing it now.
 
Nice to have some steel in the side but we need to be a little more streetwise with it, we also do not want silly bookings for dissent which could lead to key players getting suspended. The promotion team of 95/96 had steel and flair and that is what Hessy needs to produce for us to be successful. The steel side is looking good, the flair side needs a little more work, Weston to start on Saturday would be a move in the right direction.
 
itstimupnorth said:
Sorry, but I beg to differ. In 2009-10 Rochdale finished third (in fact only getting 4 points from their last 9 games, so were well in contention for second until latish on) and picked up only 34 yellows and 3 reds in league games, plus 2 yellows from 4 cup games, so a total of 36 yellows and 3 reds from 50 games. In fact two players accounted for a total of 13 yellows and 2 reds.

Last season, in L1 which it could be argued is a more difficult league to play in, they achieved their joint best ever position (9th) with a total of 38 yellows and 2 reds in 46 league games.

Whilst of course individual players are (usually) responsible for the cards they pick up, the style of play and discipline of the team is ultimately determined by the manager. In general players pick up yellow cards because of inadequate skills for the level of football they are playing.

It's far too early to call a trend for a whole season, so let's call this my marker.
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No need to apologise for offering a different point of view. I should caveat this comment with this is only my opinion, unlike your good self who has clearly done some in depth research but I would suggest that teams like Rochdale are few and far between and the success they achieve playing out out of the division is the exception as opposed to the rule.

Bitter experience of watching the lower leagues suggest to me that you need a certain amount of steel to get out of the division
 
itstimupnorth said:
Sorry, but I beg to differ. In 2009-10 Rochdale finished third (in fact only getting 4 points from their last 9 games, so were well in contention for second until latish on) and picked up only 34 yellows and 3 reds in league games, plus 2 yellows from 4 cup games, so a total of 36 yellows and 3 reds from 50 games. In fact two players accounted for a total of 13 yellows and 2 reds.

Last season, in L1 which it could be argued is a more difficult league to play in, they achieved their joint best ever position (9th) with a total of 38 yellows and 2 reds in 46 league games.

Whilst of course individual players are (usually) responsible for the cards they pick up, the style of play and discipline of the team is ultimately determined by the manager. In general players pick up yellow cards because of inadequate skills for the level of football they are playing.

It's far too early to call a trend for a whole season, so let's call this my marker.
Click to expand...

i disagree, i think rochdale are in the minority. i would point to teams like stevenage, dagenham, wycombe, brentford, who got promoted through solidity and being streetwise
 
I started to do some research which I hoped would prove my point, but at first glance would appear to confirm the opposite...

:embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed::embarrassed:

However I've been struck down with some sore throat / sneezing / acheing bug which will not only delay the outcome until I can see clearly again, but also prevent me from going to Crewe tomorrow. Really p*****d off as it's one of the few games that's reasonably reachable this season.

However my daughter and BF will be flying the flag for me, so if you hear some strange accents (and possibly most unladylike language) don't be alarmed.
 
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