This season's income

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Consett Mag, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. I am Groot returns

    I am Groot returns I insist on a ban NOW please mods!!
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    How much we have or haven't spent is partially irrelevant in this discussion. Even how much we have to spend and will/do spend is also partially irrelevant in this discussion.

    One of our apparent major problems is the inability to pay the "going rate" both with regard to fee and also with regard to wage. We need an overhaul of our policy about bidding half the value of players and then not competing in the wages market as we may have £100M to spend but we aren't going to spend it if we don't make appropriate bids and offer sensible (in relative terms) wages.
     
    #21
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  2. Nev

    Nev Well-Known Member
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    I might be wrong (for a change) but I think we might already be committed to buying Merino this Summer for £7m approx. Thats what it says on Transfermarkt anyway.
     
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  3. I am Groot returns

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    I thought we had already bought him?

    Unless you mean Mourinho, in which case does that mean Rafa is going?
     
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  4. Warm Pouch

    Warm Pouch Better than JPF

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    Looking at our agent fees and wage bill we have no problem paying the going rate. We sat in 15th for wage bills. Top 10 for agent fees. Transfer fees wise we were a little lower but that is because Rafa felt he had to spread his budget. He has been proved correct. I think our problem is our fans see every failed transfer transaction as down to money. Firstly I don't think that is the case, secondly I'd imagine every club is in the same boat looking at the figures.
     
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  5. Warm Pouch

    Warm Pouch Better than JPF

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    I think we've already bought Merino.
     
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  6. Nev

    Nev Well-Known Member
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    I thought we had to. That is why I was surprised to see it, as that site is usually fairly up to date on stuff like that.

    https://www.transfermarkt.com/newcastle-united/kader/verein/762
     
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  7. G4rdToonArmy

    G4rdToonArmy Well-Known Member

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    This

    As long as we don't try and spend £5m on a striker and expect them to be even close to competitive with Mitrovic I just don't see the point....:emoticon-0127-lipss
     
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  8. I am Groot returns

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    Agents fees are irrelevant.

    Don't think fans see every failed transfer as due to money but over Penfold's time we have consistently underbid and failed to offer the going rate.

    I refuse to believe Rafa was in agreement or expected at the start of last summer to pay £5M for a striker. We clearly wanted a striker as we bought one but you are going to stretch the boundaries of wummery to convince anyone that that was the striker market Rafa was looking at last summer.

    So why didn't we get one?
     
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  9. Warm Pouch

    Warm Pouch Better than JPF

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    Well if you don't pay the agent fee, the transfer won't get over the line. So they are very relevant.

    I'm sure we did want a striker and I'm sure we tried. We wanted Kenedy on loan too, but we failed in that pursuit. Sometimes you can't get what you want. Sometimes it has nothing to do with money. Its just as likely that it was down to players personal choice as it was money. Look at Abraham. He simply chose Swansea over us. There were rumours flying around about money, and then he comes out and tells a different story. Its naive to believe everything you read in the Chronicle to be honest.

    Of the strikers who moved to the PL since August, to clubs we could compete with, are there any you'd have liked to have signed? I mean at a push as newly promoted side we could have competed with West Brom for Rodriguez 12m? Perhaps we could have competed for 15m Wood from Leeds? 20m for Andre Gray? Mounie for 12m to Huddersfield? Of those only Mounie would we have been first choice for the player. The likes of Watford, West Brom, Burnley started the season at an advantage. We will have an advantage over some this year I'd imagine.

    I know we baulked at 25m for the Danish lad, but surely you're not suggesting we should have caved?

    I think our fans have habit of going stir crazy around the windows. We just need to ease our expectations and take it as it comes. Look at the last window. Massively successful. The season as a whole, a good job done with the tools provided. What we have to realise is nobody is spending these 120m or paying over the odds. What you need to do is be cute. Like Watford were with Ricarlison. We sent the same money on Murphy but just didn't get the same instant return. We might in time though.
     
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  10. I am Groot returns

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    The point I was making with regard to transfer fees is that we don't "bid" on those and, therefore, are irrelevant to my point of not paying the going rate.

    I agree £25M for Jorgenson (?) was ott and no I wouldn't have gone for him but what I want is beside the point. It's what Rafa wanted is the key and if Rafa was saying buy him for £25M then that is what Penfold should have done. Mikey said the money was there for Rafa to spend ass Rafa wanted to including blowing it all on one player.

    Can't remember who was and who wasn't available last summer as have trouble enough remembering not to forget to pick up the kids when they call on my taxi services but Rafa would have given Penfold 3 names at least in the striker department and Jos would not have been on it.

    The other issue with your dream team of Penfold and Mikey is their failure to get deals done quickly or until the very last minute thereby depriving time for Rafa to work with the player but saving a couple of months salary. For that reason January could hardly be called "massively successful" and further combined with none of the acquisitions were permanent and therefore only a temporary cheap fix with the same issues having to be addressed at this window just to stand still.
     
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  11. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    We used to make roughly £30m profit in the Premier League before relegation. TV money will be conservatively, what, £30m? higher than then and I doubt our wage bill is much higher if at all what with all cost cutting done when we were relegated. Player sales could easily reach £40m if we ship out who I think we would want to to make room for new, better players incoming - Mitrovic, Gayle, Hayden, Manquillo would fetch that amount. There's your £100m right there and it doesn't even include all the money we had in the bank which was supposedly available for Rafa to buy players in January. I'm certainly not saying that is what Ashley will allow Rafa to spend, but I'd be surprised if that wasn't the kind of money floating around the club in the summer if we were to ship out those players I've mentioned (yes, I actually think Rafa will keep Joselu).
     
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  12. Warm Pouch

    Warm Pouch Better than JPF

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    If that was the case and Rafa was saying pay 25m. Rafa wanted Slimani or Jorgensen. He got Slimani - where is the issue? Aside from that I very much doubt we had 25m left in the budget after the spend of the last two seasons. 15m maybe but 25m? Where are we supposed to have conjured up those kinds of funds? I understand people think we should have spent some of next seasons TV money, but the club has stated we will not do that. That is what the manager signed up to. Plus it has proven to be much more sensible to loan a few players and save that money for next year.

    I don't think you can just have one man (Rafa) deciding what is value for money). Managers always want to spend the money because they know its their neck on the block. Its like asking a fast bowler in cricket if he wants to go for a review. They always say yeah its out. The management team Rafa signed up as happy to work with has to have input or you will be on the road to financial ruin.

    In terms of timeframes I think you are misunderstanding them not being able to get business done early, with players awaiting better offers. Like Abraham. I think Joselu was probably on Rafa's list as his last option. He has stated his first choice was loaning Abraham who sacked us off for what he thought was a better option. I don't know who his 2nd choice was but we didn't get him. Where we can business done early we do. Murphy signed on the 19 July. Merino signed in July. Lejeune 4th July. Atsu 24th May. Manquillo on the 21 July. All more than 5 week before the window closed. All Rafa choices. The striker went to the wire but we don't really know who the choices of striker Rafa gave outside of Abraham.

    I think you are being massively unfair to the club suggesting they are not trying. They delivered 5 of his targets more than 5 weeks before the window. They failed to deliver the striker, keeper or Kenedy. But did manage to try again in January when clubs showed more willing. People are expecting too much as I say.
     
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  13. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    The "club" is trying? It's only Charnley, which is the problem. An exec team of one is too powder puff. That's firmly at the door of Ashley and is inarguable.

    It's why I fear for this close season. We go into the Summer, with a World Cup to deal with, and only Lee Charnley juggling? What if Mitro, Shelvey and Lascelles all go, play and do well - we're then fielding huge offers, haggling and also trying to buy the 5+ players we need just to tread water. It doesn't look good.

    We could barely cope last Summer with getting promoted, nobody wanting our players and no tournament. One of our purchases had a get-out clause we refused to meet, two months before paying it. Another - Atsu - was already at the club. Essentially we signed a crap utility fullback, an even crapper backup-to-the-backup striker and the untried Merino, who's disappeared. We still failed to bring in the 'keeper and striker we desperately needed. The club may try hard, but if it's understaffed and underfunded, trying isn't really enough.
     
    #33
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  14. I am Groot returns

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    Not forgetting that it’s a shorter window this summer as well. And also not forgetting the “I’m not spending I’m selling” approach Ashley will approach the window with.

    Yes Pouchy I still don’t trust Ashley nor do I have any faith in Penfold.

    Wonder why that might be...
     
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  15. Warm Pouch

    Warm Pouch Better than JPF

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    I don’t understand all the negativity. The management team of Rafa and Charnley have delivered supported by Big Michael. Yet still we have fans unhappy. It’s unbelievable really, only at Newcastle. The investment over the last three years has been fantastic. The strike ratio of delivering the players the manager has wanted has been up there with the best.

    The only time the manager has been told no is when he tried it in January in the Championship. Given the money he had thrown at guaranteeing promotion I think it’s fair to say Big Michael had a point and was proved correct. The same goes with spending 25m on some unproven Dane in January this. While the fans and Rafa hit the panic button, Charnley and Big Michael just stayed calm and did what was necessary. The balance in the management team looks good. For the first time in years we have a genuine Newcastle fan in Charnley making calm and considered decisions. He got the right manager on board and has then managed his expectations accordingly. He has taken the flak off the fans and shielded Rafa.

    Bottom line is since Charnley assumed more control after disbanding the “board”, we’ve gone from a relegated club to looking like achieving our highest PL finish on goodness knows how long. The RHC should remember who is responsible for appointing Rafa. Who is responsible for paying the extra to retain him and persuading him to manage a championship club. So ungrateful to guys doing a stand up job.
     
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  16. TheJudeanPeoplesFront

    TheJudeanPeoplesFront Well-Known Member

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    We'll spend around £20mil/£30mil max if Ashley still owns us. Most of that will go on securing the loan players, and if they are too much (Slimani/Kenedy), cheaper options or loans will be sought. That's what I've learned from the last decade!
     
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  17. Nev

    Nev Well-Known Member
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    We finished fifth in the time this forum has been open. Is that alzheimers getting worse? Should I fetch a nurse?
     
    #37
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  18. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    Good grief, you're now a Charnley fan....

    please log in to view this image
     
    #38
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  19. daztoc

    daztoc Well-Known Member

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    ..............Big Michael....................investment...............fantastic..................delivering players................up there with the best.................Charnley.............calm and considered decisions................shielded Rafa..................responsible for paying the extra..................persuading him to manage.....................stand up job.......................<laugh> <laugh> <laugh>
     
    #39
  20. RobEllious

    RobEllious Well-Known Member

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    Someone's certainly taking the Michael, Big time :bandit:
     
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