Peeps, this should be an interesting debate. I can't help but think about Wenger's 15 years with us, a successful start leading to a barren present. for the first half of the 15 years Arsenal were a very successful club, but in the second half Arsenal have been trophyless. Putting aside current feelings I would class Wenger's 15 year tenure as a success, what he turned us into from what we were you cannot understate. Giving him marks out of 10 .. I'd go for 7 out of 10. Even though we have not done as well as we hope or even expect (based on past performances), in recent years, I cannot deny that the brand Arsenal is one I am proud of. This season has given me the right hump though but putting high emotions aside we aren't in a bad place really. What are your thoughts of his 15 year tenure ?
I see it as a tenure of 2 parts; First 10 years unqualified success. Last 5 years, relative failure against his high standards. Overall, swayed by early years, fairly successful, agreed 7 out of 10 but it could have been so much better had he not tried his 'young boys' strategy which was a resounding failure in terms of winning anything.
Successful of course. As much as I've enjoyed the past 6 years he's kept Arsenal very profitable throughout and deserves credit for that.
'Peeps, this should be an interesting debate.' Anyone that says the last 15 years have been anything other than successful is deluded. Perhaps responses could point out whether individuals remember/were old enough to understand pre Wenger days.....
Anyone who watched The Arsenal prior to the Wenger era would undoubtably say that his tenure has been a sucess. In fact he is our most sucessful manager ever. It is only anyone under the age of about 24 who questions Wenger abilities. Oh and I'd say 9/10.
Hothead - I look beyond the trophy cabinet despite the period being our most successful in history. The achievement of Champs Lge qualification 14 years on the spin, the current financial position of the club when compared with the vast majority of other (proper) clubs, and the fact that we have secured the clubs future for the next 5,6,7 or more generations in owning a state of the art large stadium that is the envy of the majority of the footballing world. I accept not many in here will be old enough to remember the early 80s and friends tell me the mid 70s were even worse, but where the club is at now compared to any time since the 30s is an extrordinary achievement that should be acknowledged and celebrated. For me the last 15 years would be a 9.5/10
Playing Devil's Advocate, the last time I remembered playing football was about winning games. 15 years ago we were mid table mediocrity. Nobody remembers the losers. We laugh at Liverpool, they haven't won a league for over 20 years, in 20 years time if we haven't won a league or a trophy even, will the argument remain that we have a nice stadium etc ? Our current situation is akin to those women who have kids with rich fellas and end up in the divorce courts asking for unimaginable settlements so they can "maintain their lifestyle". Wenger took us to the summit, we ruled the roost, now we are expected to accept we are regular Joes.
Hothead We're a proper club, run properly, with proper values, take away the Russian (and now the Middle Eastern) money and we would have won a hell of alot more trophies than we have. Of course we have to compete but in some respects that's what makes Wengers achievements in recent seasons all the more remarkable, the fact he's led us into positions where we can win titles whilst competing against the cheque happy clubs - last year was painful from the Carling Cup final on, we all know that, but for that magical period in February when we're beating Barca and top of the league (I know it led to nothing) but all that was achieved amidst Cheslea's continual disregard for money, Man Utd flexing their financial muscle to prove a point, and Man City who make everyone look like paupers. I do believe that when the Fifa rules kick in we'll be as successful as anyone, it becomes a level playing field then (or should)
No one is arguing about being a proper club or not, the argument for me is whether AW still has it to get the best out of his players (cue the Carling Cup Final debacle, which we cannot blame on the russian/arab oligarchs). We also wonder what the board are doing about securing the future of our key players to long term contracts..... I am not advocating spending silly money on player purchase, but please please keep our talents, as we cannot afford to replace them. It's not surprising our highest purchase on a player is below 20mill and our biggest sale is over 35mill...... We are too happy to take the money, but very slow to spend it!
Who says a £35m player is better than a £15m player ? Chelsea and Man City have ruined reasonable valuations - remember they think Torres is worth £50m and Na$ri worth £25m. As for retaining existing players I agree this is vital, but I do believe it's in hand. Mid season is not the time to do this unless players have less than 12 months left and we want to retain them, contract talks should be done in Summer or shortly before end of the season if there's nothing riding on our last game or two.
Well on the balance probablity, a £35mill player will be better than a 15mill player. My contention is why do we always seem to replace key members of our team with players of lesser ability? I wonder how you know this? I really worry with our past record, what will happen if end of the season RVP/Song/Walcott (players according to the media, with 18mths currently left on their contracts), decide not to commit? Another fire sale of our prized assets on transfer day deadline?
I can't speak generally I just have absolute confidence in the clubs ability to recognise and resolve this. I do however know someone who through a third party has dealings with RVP, the consistent message I've been getting is the thought of leaving Arsenal is not in RVPs mind. If you're a betting man and familiar with Betfair, RVP is a 1.01 shot to stay apparently. As for the £35m v £15m player, probability doesn't account for the disregard some claubs have for money or their desperation at certain times - I expect there are countless examples of lower cost purchases ending up being better value than higher proced players....
