S.A.F.C. - the future

Nailed it ^

 

I don’t disagree, I disagree with the comment I replied to that he wasn’t given resources.

 

Why couldn't he? No one would know until he was given the chance.
He didn't do well here but people don't work in isolation. One failure doesn't mean that he is incapable. There are other circumstances to consider.
I mentioned Moyes because he was widely dismissed as being useless because of one situation. The fact is, that assessment of him was wrong. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that Paul Reid might have a similar career trajectory.

 

Look at our net spend that season compared to others and how many we needed

 

Well judging by the players bought with the millions he did spend, I’d wager any other money would have been wasted just as badly.

 

I agree we wasted what little we spent but to be fair to him he was out of work didn’t have any prep time cos of how Allardyce left, player prices were at a premium and we spent less than the likes of Bournemouth. Moyes clearly didn’t do well but is clearly a good manager. Shorts mess was to blame. Short who was in Hawaii not at matches.

 

Because he hadn’t done anything of the sort, would have never got the job if he wasn’t best mates. You’ve agreed he’s probably reached his level. It doesn’t matter what you say, he is working for some Southern League club. His career could go along a similar trajectory, it hasn’t yet because Moyes didn’t have to drop a number of tiers to take up a completely different role. You are comparing apples to pears, But even then you are completely missing the point that I said the “two clowns” had appointed someone who hadn’t done anything in football to deserve the chance of running an academy. Something he hadn’t even done in his Eastleigh days. He may well even agree himself now, he wasn’t cut out for it. It’s not as if clubs were lining up to take him on. There was nothing on his CV to suggest he was the strongest candidate, mainly because there were no others but his mate thought he was the cheap option

 

100%. Said it before and will say it again. They paid a minimal amount out of their own pockets and used the club's own money to pay the rest to Ellis. They gambled it all on getting promoted in the 1st season with the intention of selling on for a massive profit. When that failed and questions started to get asked, the masks slipped and they showed they true selves.

Saved the club my arse

 

I'm not sticking up for someone thats employed in an industry that rewards failure, but I once heard an interview with DM on Radio Black n White, he was asked if the sunderland job was "everything that was advertised in the brochure", he said "no, but I have a job to do". Players like N'Dong were being scouted by while Big Sam was there. Once he got the England job, DM came in and informed everyone that the club would be sticking with Sam's "Blue print", including players that were being scouted and in the works. He bever brought any of his own backroom staff in, odd at the time. Once again I'm not defending anyone here, but it was clear he was billshitted through the door and the money was gone, after that he done what Keane did and went with who he knew, the ex Everton team players for free. Faults on both sides. I also remember him saying "we haven't got the kind of money to sign the likes of James Mccarthy", like he was one about Ronaldo.

 

I'm not 'comparing apples with pears' at all. I'm making the point that a lack of success in one role, one set of circumstances doesn't make an individual incapable of fulfilling the same or a similar role successfully under a different set of circumstances.
What I'm taking exception with is the implication that non-league and people working in non-league are to be looked down upon, which was inherent in responses to your original post on the subject.
In theory, there was nothing wrong with appointing someone from Eastleigh, who were only two divisions below Sunderland at the time that Reid was appointed. Appointing people that you've worked with previously is quite common in football so implied nepotism is really a moot point. All clubs have to work to a budget. Its not really Reid's or Hill's fault that Donald didn't actually have that much money.

 

Wouldn’t say everyone as happy and I certainly didn’t see him as an upgrade. Arguably the worst ever signings by a sunderland manager considering the money he spent.

He’s been rubbish everywhere he has been other than Everton and currently West Ham.

 

But I wasn’t suggesting that, I mentioned the two clowns employing someone who I believed wasn’t fit for purpose, the same as Richard Hill. Stating that he has ended up at Bashley after not being involved in a similar role since he left us 2 years ago. I don’t think anyone was knocking them, we were comparing his roles which is quite relevant in the grand scheme of things. In theory there clearly was something wrong in appointing someone who hadn’t even done the role two leagues below Sunderland. He wouldn’t have got the job by his CV if Donald wasn’t in charge. It didn’t take a genius to work out, which is just as well cos I am not one. I even had the debate at the time with Kildaremackem on RTG. Not many people go from owning someone like Eastleigh to someone like Sunderland. As a matter of fact I doubt it has happened before. I have no doubt he was restricted, his first comment upon leaving was “ we cut 22% from the academy budget”, well I’d rather have kept players that showed something and not replaced them with kids who had no club. It’s obvious why he employed him, because no other academy manager is going to come in and say, “yes I will cut your budget”. now even if that was his instructions it doesn’t take away from the fact that, I repeat, the two clowns employed him and even Inspector Clousea could see it was going to be a disaster. I have no issue with him taking the Sunderland job, anyone would, I have issues with him being asked to do it in the first place. Career progression so far, Whitehawk interim manager, Eastleigh head of recruitment, Sunderland Category 1 Academy Manager, Bashley Director of Football. Something just doesn’t look right in that.

 

He has a career win percentage average of 42% not exactly rubbish, whether you like him or not.

 

Was excellent at Preston, Everton & West Ham
Hard to judge him at Man Utd as it was a thankless task replacing SAF and Spanish football is a basket case of a league - even the top teams change manager at the drop of a hat

No arguments here that it was a disaster of an appointment, but at the time he was appointed the vast, vast majority of fans were happy.

 

That’s right. The day he was appointed, I was at Rotherham away in a pre-season game. Moyes got a great reception after the match. He had been watching from the stands and came onto the pitch after the final whistle.

 

For argument's sake let's say Donald and Methven were running a building company and needed a bricklayer. They looked at the wages a skilled bricklayer would cost and thought **** that, and got a man in with no skills or qualifications in bricklaying because he was cheaper. Rather predictively the walls he built were ****e and fell down.

 

Aye that lad was no fecking good at plumbing either.

 

Not sure why I didn’t just say that in the first place instead of war and peace.

 

no idea about spanish football and as you rightly say, he was on a hiding to nowt at man utd..i was happy when he was named as i based my opinion on his everton work who were at the time, pretty much similar to ourselves as a club and he never seemed to have vast amounts to spend but his demeanour from the start lost him support rapidly.

 

I agree that Donald and Methven didn't have the money to run a club the size of Sunderland. They seem not to have had the contacts to run a club the size of Sunderland either. The contacts they did have got the jobs but that's how it works quite often- someone you know moves up a level or two and when they need someone, you go with them.
Donald and Methven took a gamble on getting us promoted first go. It failed. Arguably, if their gamble had paid off Hill and Reid would have left when they sold up and rode off into the sunset with their profit. If not, Reid might have got to work in circumstances where the focus wasn't on cost cutting and, therefore, his performance might have been different. He might well have been promoted beyond his level but to say he was "an utter ****ing failure" is to ignore the circumstances he was working under.

To use the brickwork analogy, it doesn't matter how experienced the brickie, you can't expect him to build you a wall if you give him two twigs and half a jar of marmalade.

It seems to me, people just like to criticise.