Now then, we have had a number of post over the past week along the lines of.... Why do we have problems attracting top players. Dithering over targets. Letting our best players go. Moving to the next level. Showing intent. We also, I understand have a salary cap, chairman, owner and manager who insist on value for money and a cry from us fans when we read things like, Johnson 14mil, never. So my question is a simple one, are we right or should we bite the bullet and accept one of two options. Option 1 We accept we are at best a mid table premier team, look for solid if uninspiring mid table players and join many other teams in just enjoying the ride. Option 2 We do a lower version of City, we cant afford the full version, a bit of a Boro of old. We pay over the odds in fees and wages to buy better players and send out the message that we mean business. We do of course have a third option, carry on the way we are, accept it will not be a quick fix, show patience and look for slow but steady improvement. I have my view but am interested in yours.
Following on a post form Syd. After many days of a very public and very bitter spleen venting process (bad natured if well meaning all the same) and I have been very much part of that absolute nonesense but it is time to draw a line under it and move on. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There done. Now lets move forward. I have been thinking over the weekend about what plans are in the minds of the chairman/manager and most importantly the owner and over me cornflakes this morning I have come up with this scenario. Its not what will happen of course but what could and makes me think maybe there are some cunning plans afoot at the SOL. Money doesn't grow on trees as we know and Ellis Short has been very generous thus far into his ownership of SAFC. However, he doesn't want to be putting £30m every year in to the coffers for transfers so they have devised a plan. Bent was allowed to go for lets say £24m. Henderson was allowed to go for £20m and I reckon without a shadow of a doubt, Gyan will be next (I said this 3 or 4 weeks ago) for say £20m. I don't think his long term plan was to stay at SAFC and he used us so in turn, we should use his worth IMO to better our squad. Thats £64m in. Now, this is the speculative part and a bit Premier Manager style but what if these players came in to the club Bosmans:Westwood; Vaughan;Larsson; Buys; Pavlyuchenko 12m; N'Zogbia 12m; Johnson 10m; Rodallega 10m; Hutton 8m; Brown 4m; O Shea 4m; Gibson 4m; N'Gog 3m; Won 1m Targets: Left back circa 4m Spending: £72m Sales: £64m Net Spend: £8m I have decided that we should not piss about this time and offer the 12m for N'Zog up front, 10m for Johnson which no one else might fancy and 8m straight for Hutton. Thats only £8m out of the TV money we received each year and means still having the remainder of the TV money, all the season tickets money AND all the sponsorship money to put back into the club. Our squad will look pretty solid and although there are a couple of players I may not have fancied in there, there is enough strength in depth to maintain a full season this time and I reckon play some good football. Team: Westwood, Hutton, O Shea, Johnson, Bardsley, Larsson, Catts, Sess, N'Zog, Pav, Rodallega. Subs from: Gordon (inj), Mig, Bramble, Turner, Ferdinand, Brown, Vaughan, Colback, Meyler, Steed, Richardson, Won, N'Gog, Noble, Gibson, Campbell (inj) and L back. If we were to line up with that team and squad on August 14th then Bent, Henderson and Gyan will be distant memories and we will have spent (net) less than any other team IMO in the EPL. Its a squad full of good football and goals and stops the reliance on one player for 20+ goals a season. The one major downfall of having Bent IMO. Maybe there is something akin to this in the minds of the clubs rulers (with different players perhaps) but there is sense in sacrificing 3 players to rebuild a whole squad if the ones coming in are of this calibre. Over to you SB, NQ & ES. Fill your boots. Thoughts?
Question is, do you really want to lose Gyan?? Would you not be better off signing Pav or Defoe (who I think would be a good partner for Gyan.) Rodallega is a good shout too! I must be honest and say I do not rate Cattermole. He seems to be a liability (from the limited matches I have seen him play in) so you could do with drafting in a replacement for him. N'Gog would be a decent signing as well. He could well surprise a lot of people. Just my tuppence worth
Really? Had you down as more of a weetabix kinda guy Cest! It's still early days as far as transfers go, although a few clubs have gone shopping a little earlier than usual this year. For me, the players we have been linked with so far are nothing more than squad players bar maybe Gibson who I could see Bruce playing regularly. I can't see us getting O'Shea, his demands will be too much for us and that's even if he would come to the region full stop. As for Crouch, turned us down before, his missus will never give him the OK to move north of the Watford gap and even if saggy faced 'Arry told him to be on his way, I'm pretty sure he'd find another club in the capital. Bruce stated last year that he would have to break the Sunderland transfer record to get a striker anywhere near as prolific as Bent. We haven't been linked with any such players yet which leads me to believe that this is the calm before the storm, give it a bit more time and I'm convinced that SAFC will have some pleasant surprises lined up for us.
****ing hell. A mag that can articulate? You're as rare as happy family snaps of Ryan Giggs at the moment kidda. Gyan has used SAFC to get his face the shop window mate. I have no problem with that so long as the money is good enough and a strike force of Pav and Rod would more than compensate IMO. I think Defoe is finished though. He has been poor for 2 years now and I think he is shot. As for Catts you're kind of right and totally wrong at the same time. 10 years ago or more this lad would be hailed as the new Bryan Robson or Roy Keane but in the modern game he is penalised, much in the same way the Tiote is (officially the most booked player last year). I bet you wouldn't get rid of him now would you? Catts is a born winner and yet still only a kid really at 23. He is maturing in the same way Barton has in later life ( and I bet you wouldn't get rid of him either now) and for me, he is the natural ball winning, central midfielder that every successful club has to have. He is a good captain as well IMO. Still its all speculation in the end and opinion of course.
Cornflakes, toast and yogurt, with a Taylors Lazy Sunday roasted coffee. Makes me sound sophisticated and healthy no? Then why am I still a fat ****er then? Lol PS - I didn't mention Crouchy mate and dont you think the wage demands of O Shea and co would have been sounded out BEFORE a bid went in? SAF and Bruce are good friends you know?
With Tiote, I do think he needs to smarten up a bit. He can be a bit wreckless. I suspect you could be right about Catts. I forget he is young as he has been around for quite a while (testament to how good he actually is really.) On the plus side, you will have money to spend and have people in charge who actually care for the club. You seem to have a very mature look on the club. Not always seen from your lot
Morning Syd. Have a read of my spleen venting post and give me your thoughts? I think we could rake in a small fortune with the sale of Gyan added to the already small fortunes from Bent and Jordan. With that kind of war chest and maybe another 10m, we could really start and make some big noises in the transfer market. Stop pissing around with offers way short and go in with the asking price (as Liverpool are doing and get your man early). We need to make a big statement of intent this summer to stem the accusations we have lost our way. It doesnt necessarily mean blowing the whole lot on 3 marquee signings but a squad building exercise that stops the 2nd half of the season flops. In think we need to have a quick burst this summer season to reaffirm our position and then slowly add to the squad over the next 2 years.
Sophisticated with a capital 'S' mate! Yeah, just thought I'd throw Crouch in there as his story's in the papers again this morning. I'm sure SAF and Bruce have each other on speed dial mate but there's just something that doesn't add up about the O'Shea move for me. I hope I'm wrong, as his experience and versatility will help us no end, time will tell I guess. P.S Totally agree with the above about Catts which I think maybe an in the minority opinion currently.
Believe me kidda, I can sometime be a bit of a spoilt child as well as the next man but then with the benefit of age behind me (sadly) I tend to come to my senses quicker than some and try and look at the bigger picture long term. Yes I was hacked off at losing Henderson (bet you were with Carroll) but then £20m for him does soften the blow as £36m will have for Carrol - we actually have more in common with players and squads than is comfortably acceptable when you think about it? Lol For what its worth, I think Tiote and Barton are top players and along with Nolan, is one of the strongest in the league on their day, which is why I am at a loss as to why you seem so hell bent on losing 2 of them? Whats your thoughts?
Hmmm yes well I lost my way a bit last night. I have no interest in being a WUM. The Carroll money softened the blow of losing him but I suspect it won't get reinvested. My thoughts on potentially losing Barton and Nolan are that they are the ones who create a positive and harmonious atmosphere. They stood up and were counted when we got relegated and of course this season. Without them, we would have gone down, not conned the bin dippers and I would have checked into a funny farm!! Losing them will destroy the squad happiness and we will spiral out of control and suffer 2nd season syndrome .
Fair reflections mate. I see Barton, Nolan, Enrique and your namesake as the big difference to the promotion and survival over the last 2 seasons. They were 4 very experienced senior pros who to be fair, would be a part of every team/squad outside the top 5 or 6 clubs. Losing them will be a hammer blow for sure and I guess you're hoping that FMA at least sees that before its too late. Once other clubs come sniffing round, players quickly get their mind set on leaving and then you have lost the very thing they were noted for. Going to be a very interesting season for both clubs IMO and a touch of uncertainty hangs over us both.
To be quite honest a lot of the moaning has come from us not going for this player or that player, I have seen people saying we should not moan until the end of August and wait to see who Bruce brings in? Surely it does not matter who he brings in, it matters if results go our way and we play good football? So he should be judged at least a few months into the season. Let's face it most of us were very negative about bramble and Welbeck who turned out to be 2 of our best players, we were all excited about Muntari and Riveros and they both turned out to be very average. We finished 10th this season even with the worst injury crisis I have seen in the clubs history. I was not happy about Brucies appointment but he has delivered so far, I think he will carry on getting some good signings at the right price for us, some we will like, some we won't. Like any human he will make mistakes but I can see us progressing under him. IMO he is the best Sunderland manager for many years and I think given the time he will surpass what Reid achieved and take us to our first silverware for years and into Europe. It's not going to happen over night but it will happen.
Breakfast croissants, coffee, grapefruit juice and marmalade...is my Sunday morning repast Catts, he was certainly a liability at the beginning of last season and did cost us points..whether he will improve?? I think he lacks pace which causes him to dive in when a player is going away from him. In todays football any sliding one/two footed tackle appears to be yellow/red carded. So will Catts adapt and be useful to the team, he is young so he might but needs to stay on the pitch by not getting cared/injured. One post above mentioned some on the older skunk players like Nolan, Barton etc. IMHO that was the sort of player we lacked and therefore when heads went down with injuries etc. team spirit was non-existent and so was partly responsible for the 'poor run'. I am well pissed of with the sale of Bent and Henderson and the import of the same. That is, we are aiming to be a mid table side with hopefully a good cup run, skunkville are in the the same paradigm. So yes I expect a very different team next season, I do hope we hang onto Gyan, so we need 3 forwards, a couple of midfielders (although 'Jack' and Meyler may come good) we need creativity in the middle and an attacking winger (Insomnia seems to be the choice). A specialist left back and another CB. That little lot must be close to £50/60 million so I expect Mr Short may have to put more cash around £10-15 million. The question is what wages are we going to pay, or can you cheat and give the incoming player cash up front as a signing on fee so technically keeping the wage structure? I think this may be needed if we are to get in a proven existing EPL striker otherwise we will only get second raters, like Ngog I know nothing about this young South Korean
if we are not content to have stars in our team we need the squad building with quality thats the answer
The problem with cests original post is we did not get 24m for Bent as we had to pay the spuds a sell on fee, the Henderson money is also not 20m upfront. Short will have to put his hand is his pocket again and with this in mind and also the fact that the players wages are also a big factor he will need to back Bruce. As I have stated before Short can afford it, he will want us to progress. He will want to built the business so it grows in value, the only way to do that is to invest in it. As someone who was an investment banker he understands more about this than all of us. We will see steady investment and he will back Bruce. We won't have the boom and bust of other clubs like say Leeds, it will be steady progress. Short is a smart guy, have patience my friends, there will but the odd blip along the way but we will get there in the end.
I appreciate the fact we didnt get it all up front lostin vegas but then the deals we do will be on the same basis. All transfers are conducted this way. We wont be stumping up the full amounts either in one go so it balances out. total spend remains the same but payments are spread.
I think we will keep Gyan, I would certainly hope we do and instead of replacing him with Pav, I would rather we add Pav and Rodallega, that would be a fantastic strike force. I've got no idea who we should buy but I trust Bruce to get it right this season, he knows, as the rest of the world knows, we cannot get 5 or 6 loan players in again, we have to buy and create a team. A team with a great team spirit, togetherness, can play above themselves, get a couple of Gyans mates in to keep him happy, if we have a happy Gyan we are going places.
We have been lucky thus far, that the only teams interested are for all intents and purposes not as good as us. IE West Ham. Also it helps that neither Nolan or Barton want to leave. Enrique is off, no doubt about that so we need to sign a replacement. could be interesting indeed
