Hope you guys liked my witty pun! This season you look at spurs and wonder what happened.... loads of talent brought in, decent league position last year, AVB is showing Chelsea made a mistake, etc.... fast forward to now and you have some Lord Sugar testing AVB's bottle, the team are lacking goals ( think Suarez has scored more than their entire team), frustration, who is the best team, settling in, etc. It was clear that last year Bale won Tottenham many games, do you think Suarez is doing that for us now? If you look at the performance today for example, Suarez was on fire, such awesome goals, but the team performance still had some work to do and spots it could improve on. The worth of Suarez now to us is pretty insurmountable as Spurs have shown by losing Bale, they have lost a guy who, when tactics go wrong or the team needs a spark, could provide it instantly. This also leads to the next question.... do you think when Suarez plays like this it hides some manager frailities as maybe Bale's last year did for AVB? Only thoughts to discuss to keep the motor ticking for the weekend. Suarez goals though were just spectacular. I know he can but I want this Suarez for when we play Spurs ( especially Spurs), Chelsea, and City all away in this upcoming fixtures. Another for Suarez today though. I think Fowler said it best " I am beginning to dislike Luis Suarez as he is making all the ex-Liverpool strikers look very, very average".
Definitely. We have not clicked as a team yet this season, which is worrying as we are almost halfway through. In those matches we've been dragged along by either Sturridge or Suarez. Suarez has been on fire since he's come back. Whether he's trying to make amends or paint a pretty picture for potential purchasers () he's dragging us to that 4th place level. It's almost as if he's trying to say "if you lot don't want to get to fourth, I do". We have positives in Coutinho and Sturridge, who are at the club for the long haul and will ease our suffering if and when Suarez decides to move abroad. It makes it very tough to determine how a team will fare when someone plays like Suarez is this season, or how Bale did last season. This is why it's very important to nitpick at the small details and the mistakes we make when 4-0 up. One day, when he leaves, we'll only be up 1-0 and those mistakes will be exponentially more important. Question two relates to the first one. BR has his faults, and that's evident. He's taking us in the right direction, two steps forward, one step back. It's a learning process and it will feel like we're taking too long to get there, but he's matured as a manager in the past few years. He still makes the same mistakes - trying to force a formation that clearly isn't working (4-3-3 last year) and (5-3-2 this year). He's got players he tries too hard to bed in (Allen, Downing) and players who should be playing on current form that he ignores - (Hendo last season, Sahin, Sakho, Agger). For example, Skrtel playing horribly last weekend could have gone unnoticed had Suarez had the same level of service as he got today. Therefore, it's very important that he keeps a note of these even while Suarez is demolishing some poor souls up front. Today had negatives, and while there are a few on here that hate seeing negativity after a 5-1 win, it's better to fix them when we are winning than have to when we're losing. BR has been "BALE-d" out multiple times by individual brilliance, as have many managers this season. Moyesie comes to mind, for one. But to see him tinker with sides that win is a good thing - unless it's of course our strongest. He strikes me as a perfectionist and I get serious flashbacks to Rafa every time I see the team sheet. The difference being BR is young and fixes his mistakes, while Rafa was experienced and never tried until it was too late. I'd like to see a formation of ----------------Migs--------------- -Johnson-Sakho-Agger-Enrique- ----------------Lucas-------------- ------Henderson-Gerrard-------- --------------Coutinho------------ ----Sturridge--------Suarez----- While Sturridge and Enrique are out, this wont happen obviously. Flanagan/Cissokho for Enrique and Aspas/Alberto/Sterling/Moses can replace Sturridge. So yes to both questions.
I will say Danilo.... with Rafa I think he was tactically way ahead of Rodgers and here is my point on that. Look at what he had to work with when he first came and how he tactically, through excruciating detail, those first two trophies. Now we didn't win any others after that but in terms of challenging on all fronts we were much better and of course we then had Torres who was helping drag us through some of the stages of competitions. I have defended that Suarez comes up in big games to ( off the top) Swarbs and UIR in the past and what better way to show that than with Tottenham, Chelsea, and City pretty much on the bounce and all away from home. That would really make many stand and take note, not just for Suarez, but for the team, for Rodgers, for FSG, for all. One thing I noticed in Rafa's book and it is what I can sense is starting to creep back in....... PRIDE. Pride in the manner of football being played, pride in actually being in the conversation and in the mix, to be feared ( or at the moment have players opponents feared). Apart from the Southampton blip, we have been pretty lights out at home and I hope that continues.
Interesting views on Rafa. I am not someone that hated Rafa. I appreciate what he did for us and there were times that he looked to be on the verge of turning us into a footballing MACHINE capable of grinding out 5-0 victories at the snap of a finger. But his personal... as you call it pride, got in the way. Rafa Benitez was, is, and always will be the most stubborn manager in the world. Even more than Mourinho. He had a number of faults that would infuriate me. The first few seasons he had absolute dross to work with, and he really did wonders with that team. But we stagnated. I loved him during his time at the club but also felt it was the right move to let him go when we did. Most other managers, when faced with a dilemma of choosing Alonso/Torres and Barry/Keane, would not mess with a winning formula. Now there were some variables there with Alonso's form but we see now what became of each of them. When given 20 million to spend on one player, it wouldn't be Aquilani - who then never played even when fit (albeit rarely). While I see that Aquilani has found some form in Fiorentina, I never bought the "blame the owners" argument when it came to Rafa's spending. Or he'd love to rotate players - and I don't mean just numbers. Yes, according to statistics he would rotate less than Mourinho or Ferguson, but he'd rotate in form players with absolute ****e. When we had the legendary midfield of Masch, Alonso, Sissoko, Gerrard, he still insisted on playing defensively. Back passes, sideways passes, passes back to Reina. I remember one match Reina looked like he wanted to kill himself, shouting at the defenders for making him work so hard. This would continue for months at a time before he'd wake up and tell them to attack - and we'd obviously win. Then we'd play defensively again and lose, and etc etc. Luckily BR hasn't been insistent on doing this yet. Maybe it's the thin squad, but he sticks with a team core and doesn't drop performers. He fails to drop underperformers, but he's getting better at it. The pride is coming back, but it's not in the form of a stubbornness, FACT, it's more of through the team.
I meant more on attention to detail and knowing what the club was about and trying to get the pride factor back, the fear factor back. For all those faults with Rafa, how did we become the number 1 team in Europe with those faults? How did we thrash Real 4-0? I understand he had some difference and this and that but when he had the money, big word had, he normally got it right. Aquiliani was because they owed us money for Riise, Glen Johnson, they owed us money for Crouch. They took all that money from Alonso and Arbeloa and put i towards the debt. He had that conundrum from day one btw ( Simao Sibrosa, HAVING to choose between Dirk Kuyt and Daniel Alves ( both would have totalled around 24 million) but had to choose are some examples). Can you imagine if we didnt have to do that? THat 09 team could have been Torres, Gerrard, Simao, Kuyt, Alonso, Masch, Riise, Agger, Carra, Alves, Reina...... **** with that I say!!!! Rafa def split the community but I for one think he is great and there is method to the madness. He is showing what he can do at Napoli again and he showed that he can unify a team as he did with Chelsea ( even with all the negativity towards him). I hope Rodgers continues on his learning and development but I do hope he starts to use certain players in a better way ( Sakho, LA, Illori ( loan), Sterling (loan), etc). On-topic: I do worry that we will rely on Suarez too much. I hope that is not the case but you can see how gee'd up he was to be leading the line and against a team he had joy with. I want that fire for everything but I want to see others start to pitch on. We need a good result at West Ham and frankly, I want to see Hendo with an assist or goal, Gerrard, Coutinho, Moses, etc to get that confidence up in the other players before we start that crazy schedule.
We didn't. As close as we came, what did we get out of it? A big shiny second place trophy? No. We had the fear factor but regressed in 2009/10. Rafa has method to his madness yes, but he would never have taken us to anything higher than that. As for the money, would you trust your money with someone that spent 19 million pounds on Robbie Keane, only to sell him after 6 months back to his old club for a loss, right about when he started to deliver? On Pennant? Morientes? Babel? Dossena? Riera? I'm not talking about the deadwood that he would bring in and send out every window. He got most of his transfers wrong. He had net spend for 5/6 seasons. These weren't insignificant. Most of his "tough" choices came after a window where he spent 27 million, recouping ten on deadwood. The next one he had 34m net spend where he spent 70 million pounds! He made half of it back through selling deadwood (at the time). Hardly a "have to sell to buy" type window. After that it became clear we were skint and he was forced to make do. But he did that wrong too. He brought in Cavalieri, N’gog, Keane, Riera and more. He most certainly could have improved his transfer record, and he looks to be more normal now at his other clubs. But with us it would be "please Rafa, you have 20m, plus any deadwood, don't buy - don'- oh you've gone and bought Robbie Keane". Then he wouldn't even play him. Yes he was backed into a corner by the owners but it was his actions that lead to that situation. He's got the best defensive tactics hands down though. It's easy to look back at Rafa's reign with fondness when taken into context with the **** that followed afterwards. But the Rafa Out Brigade was quite vocal back then. And they had a point. Anyways, back on topic. It's a good thread and the Rafa debate warrants its own. I might just have a go at one tomorrow. I'm glad we have a young, modern manager but yes, flashes of stubbornness. Sakho should be in the squad on current form as well as doing something with Ilori. LA hasn't had any opportunity to make a difference yet and I want to see what he can do. I get the feeling he's the type of manager that reads these types of forums. Maybe not this one but the bigger ones, RAWK and all that. Many players do, why not managers? They probably don't really take advice from us but some feedback is useful. I want to see Hendo score too! I really rate the lad and I think he makes the team run behind the scenes. If Gerrard and Lucas make it tick, he's the one that makes it go full force. His energy is always useful. He won't always have the best of games but he's really upped his game lately and deserves a place in the squad. It's important that West Ham is a team effort and others make contributions. That will teach them to start doing it when they have to.
With regards to Sakho, I heard that he's not 100% fit hence his exclusion. However, after Agger's mistake last night, I think Sakho will be coming in now.
Thought I was going to wake up at some point watching yesterday - simply stunning. I know Suarez is stealing the show at the moment but we were winning games and doing well before he came back at the beginning of the season, we could point to Sturridge and ask what happens if they're both out? But if you point to any club in the PL and ask what happens if your 2 best/most prolific players out? You'll struggle. BR is learning still and he tells us this himself too, he dealt with the whole Suarez saga better than any of us could of imagined during the summer window as well. Just a privilege to have him playing like this for us and I guess the only way we will know if it was all Suarez and he was carrying everyone manager included will be if he leaves.
Point well made MSG, if you take the 2 star players out of any team in the Premier league, specifically strikers then every single team will struggle for goals, bar maybe City. At the end of the season, it's these sort of players that separate the best from the worst, enjoy them while we have them I say
I was about to say Man City would be the exception to the rule Who would you say their best two are? Got to be two of Aguero, Yaya Toure or Kompany IMO. They have plenty of striking options in Negredo, Dzeko and Jovetic to be able to cope with Aguero missing. I wouldn't say Yaya Toure is one of the best two but he would be a bigger miss than Aguero IMO because of the options they have. We've all seen what happens when Kompany is missing.
Problem is, take the best striker/s out of any team - they will struggle for goals. However, the better teams still have enough strength in their squad to at least to dominate games and control therefore ensuring that they don't lose. Take SAS out of our team and we do not have the strength to see out games and will probably lose - such is our reliance on SAS and Coutinho.
Two ways of looking at it. We could bring in new players who all need time to settle and has an adverse effect on the team and performances like it has with Spurs (although must be noted they are only 3 points behind us). Or you could get other players stepping up (like Sturridge did) and taking more responsibility which helps the team performance. Remember when Henry went from Arsenal, the rest of the team seemed to step up a gear knowing they didn't have someone there who would bail them out when things weren't going too well. I think in theory if we sold Suarez for plenty I'd hope we only use some of the money and bring in 1 or 2 quality players and keep some back for further strengthening in the next window. This will mean there isn't too much disruption to the initial 1st team like there has been at Spurs but then gives the new players 6 months before we bring in another 1 or 2 to strengthen further. Better to do it in small steps than 1 big change as that very rarely works when everyone clicks in 1 go.
I think Spurs is a bad example; they lost their best players and brought far too many in at once. A better comparison would have been Keegan's Newcastle when they bought Aspilla Edit: Possibly before you time? (genuine question)
World class player and would love him in a Spurs shirt. I'm absolutely loving watching this guy play ball. Well done for keeping him.. There is really only one way to make it all pay and that is to keep him and build a team. However yourselves like us are in that realistic scenario of needing money to build. We didn't want to sell Bale but had to in order to theoretically build the rest of our team. You can't baulk at 85 million. The purchases we have made are gambles as is even buying a player who is a so called guaranteed success. Does not mean it will be the same when that player joins your club. We are 13 games in so I will reserve my judgement totally on the purchases my club has made. Reason being that for one it is ridiculous to write them off so early and also watching my team play week in week out you kind of get to see the potential on offer if the team does click. We are not money bags... We just had a lot to spend due to a massive sell.. However it was a necessity and I think you may find yourselves in a similar situation because if you don't build then Suarez has to do it all himself...he won't be able to....catch 22 in the long run. Is it hiding some of your manager's limitations? Of course it is... Just like every world class player makes his manager's job easy. It is quite possible though that if Suarez is played wrongly then he wouldn't be so affective...if he wasn't supported by your manager in his troublesome times then he wouldn't be so affective...for that your manager deserves credit...he could have bought the media hype and got rid of the player...coming out with bullshit like... We can't have such a player at our club he drags the club down...it's all bullshit and mass hysteria and well done to your manager for not buying it. ..for that he should get applauded.. Thanks to that quality in his management you fans are having a ball...
