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Off Topic The SIR Kenny Dalglish Public House

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Sir_Red, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. moreinjuredthanowen

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    who votes?

    The brexiteers seemed to be able to get a lot of gammon out to vote for brexit and johnson based on getting brexit done (aka get rid of those horrid easter europeans) this included a lot of working people e.g the infamous apprentices in hull who are prob now unemployed.

    People who vote ranked:

    Old folk. The VAST majority of older folk in 2019 voted tory. This group turns out to vote. this group get up of a sunday bloody morning and watch Marr and this group write letters to papers etc. (****ing weirdos i know)

    Young people - as a block those without any experience vote labour much more than tory. if it rains forget it, they won't bother.

    Adults of breeding age. 25-34 - this gourp has more idea of what they want and a bit of experience but are also flaky when it comes to actually tunring out. This also voted more for labour than tories.

    Home owners. Own it outright (older) - tory. have a mortgage, again a lot of tory votes. there is an irrational fear here labour will take your house or something. Insterst rates will rise etc etc. this group are obviously loving truss right now <laugh>

    Ethnicity - very mixed results here and a dangerous one to assume anything as proved in the USA. if you "assume" anything then the polls would indicate more vote labour but having money or not hugely impacts this.

    Bank balance - those on the bread line don't bother voting. maddeningly they don't see doing something that costs nothing but might change something isn't worth it as nothing changes. Those with money turn out in droves to protect what they have.

    the turn out in fairness has been mid 60% for the past elections so its not like there's a terrible turn out.
     
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  2. Gerrardsitchyear

    Gerrardsitchyear Well-Known Member

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    Labour lead by 17% in the latest YouGov poll on 45% of the vote. Highest they've had since 2001 under Blair.
     
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  3. Red Potato

    Red Potato Well-Known Member

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    Looking at Hurricane Ian's projected path and my house is right in the centre line of the projected trajectory. Literally ... Zooming in on the line and it passes through my house.

    Of course, not a hurricane anymore, but will be again before it hits Carolina coast. Evacuated my son out of Uni last night as Charleston looks like it's going to take a direct hit. Still coming straight for our house too, but we're inland enough, even if it does restrengthen to a hurricane before relanding in Charleston, it will just be a powerful tropical storm by the time it makes it inland to us. Might still get a foot of rain, but we're top of a hill in a brand new house so should be fine.

    At least it's not another bloody earthquake.
     
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  4. THE FOOL

    THE FOOL Well-Known Member

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    Voter turn out should be higher, the apathy around politics is indictive of how ****e things are.

    Peoe just don't see the point.

    Tories vote to oreserve what's theirs. The less we'll off are often ground down to the feeling of what's the point.

    Sad state if affairs really.

    I do feel if for some miracle they changed first past the post to some actual proportional representation it may improve.
     
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  5. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Proportional representation imo might make things even more chaotic.

    First past the post in effect maintains a 2 party system. Nots imo not good but it also assures there's a party with a majority.

    Imagine where brexit party/ ukip could marshal enough mps to be the balance of power ala the duplicate were.

    The greens might actually get seats.

    Lib dems would get more seats

    Snp power in Scotland might well be denuded?

    I couldn't see labour and tories sustaining the amount of seats they have and coalition's would be the order of the day I guess.
     
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  6. Zanjinho

    Zanjinho Boom!
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    Are Labour still saying they'll rejoin the EU...? If do, the Tories will still have a fighting chance
     
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  7. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    no
     
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  8. Nozzer

    Nozzer Well-Known Member

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    Proportional representation would deffo mean coalitions, as it does basically everywhere it's used (though I've not checked that). As to whether it's more chaotic, the UK has had four prime ministers in, what, seven years? Not sure PR would be any worse.
     
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  9. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Maybe a different type of chaos.

    May was always a compromise. Not gove not Johnson

    Then bo Jo. Never ever suitable but the tories gave up.

    Now Truss who is even worse so white folk don't have sunak.

    Imagine that with ge thrown in like Italy. You need a 5 year government coming out. We got thst out of lib tards and tories and it ruined the libs really.
     
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  10. Red Potato

    Red Potato Well-Known Member

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    I think in a parliamentary system with no executive head, first past the post is almost a necessity otherwise you'd end up with constantly changing governments as coalition's break apart and reform... And yes chaos. I wouldn't want to end up like Israel with it's non stop political uncertainty.

    That said, there are obvious problems with First Past The Post in that if doesn't hear everyone's voice.

    If I were starting up a country afresh and setting up a political system. I think a house of Commons, elected first past the post would be included. But I'd set up a second parliamentary body elected by sorti like the ancient Greeks did.

    Any eligible citizen with no criminal record can list themselves as electable to the second house and picked by lottery. Eliminates having to conform to party. No career politicians. A body that is truly made up "of the people". It would be a body of individuals, not party ideology, no reason to follow the party line. You're not up for re-election. Much better representation of the country as a whole. Yes, you'd get a few freaks and weirdos, but that's why there are two houses to limit any extremism. The idea of the House of Sorti is to have real people in places of power. I'd replace those in the second house every other year, to make sure those there were "still in touch". Any bill would have to pass both houses. If Commons wanted to pass a bill, they'd have to sell it's merits to the House of Sorti and get them on board with WHY it's a good idea.

    Let the House of Sorti be responsible for setting the wages for House of Commons AND for House of Sorti (not to come into effect until after they leave) .

    I think it's ridiculous parliament get to pick their own wages.
     
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  11. THE FOOL

    THE FOOL Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of coalitions. They rarely work with radical parties, but parties that share reasonable ideas can do well.

    It would hold parties to account more. You'd hope.
     
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  12. THE FOOL

    THE FOOL Well-Known Member

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    Since I read about how the Greeks did it, I've often wondered hiw it all went do wrong. They seemed to have had the best idea, thousands if years ago.
     
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  13. Gerrardsitchyear

    Gerrardsitchyear Well-Known Member

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    Wow
     

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  14. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Self interest and flim flam. In the end a strong personality convinced them to build a wall. Sound familiar.

    They ended up having their navy burned and once thst was gone they were gone.

    Seriously though, the model of people voting on everything is one that's resisted everywhere as accusations of paralysis or populism or merely the loudest voice winning are made.

    The funny thing is jury trials are 12 people who all have to vote... and this is putting a person's life in their hands really.

    Adds up? Nope. I've never quite got thst.
     
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  15. saintKlopp

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    It's how you get Brexit.
     
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  16. moreinjuredthanowen

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    well, maybe, maybe not.

    you gave peoepl one time on one thing to vote as a referendum. if they regulalry voted on everything maybe they would realise how wrong the lies were.

    by the same stretch scotland voted no in their one vote.

    in theory everyone (60 odd mil) can vote on everything so we elect 650 idiots like truss to do the voting for us
     
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  17. saintKlopp

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    Everyone voting on everything would be completely unwieldy and just as unfair as the current system.
     
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  18. moreinjuredthanowen

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    a small city state where men only all had the right to turn up and vote and use a black pebble and white pebble for yes and no is a world apart from having 60million vote on anything.

    We elect representatives who then go do anything they seemingly want and never check back until due for another vote.

    theres nothing at a very high level wrong with 1 MP representing the views of 60-75k of people (averages vary)

    however when you dig down just one mm beneath the surface you find that you actually get to pick between a few small amount of people who put themselves forward through their resources (party) with their own agenda that you've no real choice about.

    you have to pick the "closest" to your own views even if that person is a fat old bint who smokes cigars and thinks she knows who to run a health service... purely cos that person has a blue ribbon on election day. You then put up with whatever madness is in that persons mind for 5 years and have zero say unitl the next election on what they do.

    thats "democracy" today.

    Then lets not mention all the unelected lords etc.

    If each mp had to hold hustings for major topical points and then vote based on that feedback then at parliament, maybe that would give a list of 20 topics that directs the approach. It'd never work though.

    No party wants mps voting for brexit but then voting for more funds to NHS or whatever. they want complete control of everything they want to do.
     
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  19. saintKlopp

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    Notwithstanding all of the above, a direct democracy is completely impracticable, and just as unfair. In fact, having given it a bit of thought, even more so imo.
     
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  20. Red Potato

    Red Potato Well-Known Member

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    Ian's path moved to the East, so not getting a direct hit anymore. (Although every hurricane they always warn you the west side gets the most rain and flooding.)

    Pretty gusty already here. All my pine trees all doing yoga. Dogs couldn't poop fast enough to come back in this morning.
     
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