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The Russell Martin debate thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Osvaldorama, Sep 19, 2023.

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Martin out?

  1. Right now, he's another Nathan Jones!

    24.4%
  2. Give him one more game to see if he will actually play players in their right positions

    4.2%
  3. Give him until next international break

    31.1%
  4. Stick with him, he'll turn it round

    40.3%
  1. Che’s Godlike Thighs

    Che’s Godlike Thighs Well-Known Member

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    Downes' passing ability is more JWP than Schneiderlin.
     
    #741
  2. Che’s Godlike Thighs

    Che’s Godlike Thighs Well-Known Member

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    I mean, I agree to an extent (I like 4231). But I also think if we started with two DMs against the likes of Plymouth and Millwall at home, AND failed to score/get a result, then we'd all be complaining that 'you don't need two DMs against sh*t teams at home'. We've all seen that argument plenty of times before, notably with Southgate/England.

    Maybe we just need better box-to-box midfielders, in the old-fashioned sense. Players who can tackle, pass, and shoot. All of our midfielders seem too specialist; Downes great tackling but offers nothing going forward. Smallbone has a couple of good passes in him per game, but crap at tackling. Charles; can tackle and do basics; but passing is terrible. Stuie; excellent ball carrier/ best creative player; can't tackle so great.

    Smallbone and Charles don't get anywhere near the Leicester/Leeds midfields imo.
     
    #742
  3. SAINTOSPREY

    SAINTOSPREY Well-Known Member

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    My current mood of high dudgeon over RM is only temporary. I will man up and get over it, a result at Leeds might help....
     
    #743
  4. oldstocktonsaint

    oldstocktonsaint Well-Known Member

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    #744
  5. oldstocktonsaint

    oldstocktonsaint Well-Known Member

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    I seem to have done something wrong with my last post for it to merge with the one I was replying to.
     
    #745
  6. SAINTOSPREY

    SAINTOSPREY Well-Known Member

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    I am still ambivalent about winning the play offs, there are as many pros as there are cons about getting back in to the Premier, VAR is the prime reason for not going, and the fact we haven't got the squad to survive, it would take massive investment to succeed and I can't see SR providing it.
     
    #746
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  7. Lovelocum

    Lovelocum Well-Known Member

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    If there were guarantees that we would consistently be a top 6 championship club I would rather stay.
     
    #747
  8. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. A manager prepared to change systems depending on the opposition. What a world that would be.
     
    #748
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  9. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    I get what you’re saying but, in my mind, 2 defensive midfielders give the FBs more licence to get forward without leaving massive gaps to be exploited, and against the weaker teams, there is nothing to stop one of the DMs stepping further forward to give support to the attack. Schneiderlin or Wanyama would occasionally appear on the edge of the opposing box.
    I agree with the need for better and more versatile midfielders, but something we are lacking throughout the squad, except for 1 or 2 players, is genuine pace and power in all positions. The majority of the players seem quite pedestrian and we genuinely struggle to get players back quickly enough when countered, which is why I think having 2 DMs would be beneficial.
    The lack of pace also holds us back when we counter as well.
    I think we need a quite an overhaul of the squad for next season to remain competitive, because looking at the most likely youngsters waiting to step up, they are quite lightweight in terms of body strength and also not the quickest.
     
    #749
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  10. Brixham Saint

    Brixham Saint Well-Known Member

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    I’ve really enjoyed parts of this season, so much better to win games and go home happy, however, evaluating the season I feel we have won several games due to our superior squad strength rather than Martin’s tactical genius. He has been out coached numerous times and if those managers had our players I’m sure they would have won the games as well. With our squad the play offs were the minimum any manager should achieve. If we, as I fear, end this season with a whimper and lack of fight, I feel we should move on to a more adaptable manager.
    Rohl has done an amazing job at Sheff Wed with probably the second weakest squad in the league and were 11 points of safety when he went in.
    Cifuentes at QPR, another amazing job who has got the best out of the likes of Chair, Willock etc.
    Corberan @ Weat Brom, tactically strong and would flourish with better players.
    Just a few I would be exited to be at Southampton.
    With Martin remaining here next season we wouod just expect the same unless he decides to add a bit of steel and aggression to the team which I think is more important than keep ball to get out of this division.
     
    #750

  11. Cowtownred

    Cowtownred Well-Known Member

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    I watched the Spurs, Arsenal game. To me Arsenal played a great mix of tactics, something that Saints should try and emulate. They play a good possession game, but mix it up with hitting it long.
     
    #751
  12. Che’s Godlike Thighs

    Che’s Godlike Thighs Well-Known Member

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    That is what we were doing during our unbeaten run. The THB long ball to Fraser, became one of the more effective methods of breaking through defences.
     
    #752
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2024
  13. oldstocktonsaint

    oldstocktonsaint Well-Known Member

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    They even have a keeper who likes a bad pass.
     
    #753
  14. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    RM talking about having or not having momentum going into the playoffs. Mmm.
    Where do we currently stand on holding our nerve in games of great importance?


    When it comes down to that first and second playoff game, it's about who can hold their nerve the best and who can stick to what they've done all season.
    It's about who can handle the occasion.

    Not going to write us off but I have already got myself ready for failure, although I reserve the right to be pissed off if we don’t put in good performances.
     
    #754
  15. st_brendy

    st_brendy Well-Known Member
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    Arsenal are a great case study of the importance of two DMs. Last season it was often Jorginho-Partey, this season it has often been Rice-Jorginho (though recently it has been Rice-Partey). But every now and then Arteta decides to only start one, in favour of an extra attacker (usually resulting in Odergaard dropping slightly deeper), and the result is often that they are far more vulnerable.

    For example, he did it in our 3-3 draw their last season and he did it in their loss to Villa earlier this month.

    Playing high-possession football with only one DM is again something which arguably only City can get away with. There are various reasons as to why - eg their DM is arguably the best in the world, their RB is so rapid that he can help recover, their opponents often play so deep that they barely have the chance to attack City. The rest of us though are not City. Maybe one day Martin might learn that.
     
    #755
  16. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Yup, exactly. Echoing a post of mine from a few days back. It's screamingly obvious.

    Just a stat I heard today to give you an idea of how good Rodri actually is - he's unbeaten in 70 consecutive games that he's played for City.
     
    #756
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  17. oldstocktonsaint

    oldstocktonsaint Well-Known Member

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    But can he do it on a wet Tuesday night in Stoke?
     
    #757
  18. Shepherd's Clearing

    Shepherd's Clearing Well-Known Member

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    Did he say that? Great that means literally no changing in any way the way we play. Does that mean whoever we get in the play-off the club won't look at what they do apart from set-pieces? This is possibly not going to end well.

    My ice-hockey team got absolutely out-classed in their play-off semi-final, 4-0 down after ten minutes and eventually lost 7-3.....to Leeds Knights.

    So I'm fully prepped at least.
     
    #758
  19. shoot_spiderman

    shoot_spiderman Power to the People

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    :emoticon-0148-yes: I’d really like to see Charles and Downes together

    There’s a viewpoint that playing any format that appears more defensive is negative
    I dispute that, as an ability to win the ball back and then move it quickly on is better than having a bunch of attackers when you don’t have possession in the opposition half
     
    #759
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  20. Saints FC 76

    Saints FC 76 Well-Known Member

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    We won't even make the playoff final.
     
    #760

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