i want this to be a debate in a seperate thread, my views on this, that referee was ****, he missed a lot of fouls on our players tonight, for example, there was one where Evra was clear through and Varane pushed to deny him a goal scoring opportunity, if that was a United player, he would've been sent off, also he got fooled into Real Madrid's playacting as well, Ramos for starters, i mean RVP touched him his face with his hand but goes down like a sack of potatoes.
he let Jones off for what was a pretty clear penalty and he let off their player for the foul on Evra on balance the two nett out not letting you take that corner at the end was suspicious it happened to Liverpool as well in the 2007 final, the ref called time well before even the added time was up and we were attacking. makes you wonder because you never see that in a league match
True - I dont think they net out though, they just doubly emphasise how bad he was. The Evra foul - he absolutely 100% bottled it. It was clearly, clearly, clearly a foul and he clearly felt that if he gave the foul he needed to send the player off. And taking your point, I'd say he bottled the penatly aswell, although I wouldnt put that in the 'blatant' category but in the 'seen them given, seen them not' category. The corner was scandalous. Although, watching this game as a (relative) neutral, what frustrated me most was his absolute reluctance to book any Madrid players. It is a recurring problem in european football that refs will only book players if the 'offended' players roles around like an idiot (ramos) clutching body parts as if they have had bones removed. How he booked valencia and rvp for 'hurting ramos but didnt book ramos for a considerably worse elbow not only mistifies me but actually angers me.
agreed, it would of been a very soft penalty if it was given but it was seen given at times. but the Evra one was clear foul, there was no doubt about it, i don't know how they missed hat one and even worse it wasn't only a foul, he should of been send off and Real should of been playing with 10 men after that. and the corner, when the corner was given, the time wasn't even up, so he should of let them take it and then blow if the ball gets cleared. other then that it was a great game. ROLL on the second leg !
I think refs when they think they got something 'big' possibly wrong they tend to try and even it up later with something similar if the chance arises. You could call that doubly wrong or someone trying to keep a balance and both arguments would have merit.
The Jones one would have been very soft. Di Maria had lost the ball and Jones went shoulder to shoulder, then Jones started to push off and Di Maria fell like he got shot by Ashley Cole. The one on Evra was a could and would have been a straight red, but I really wasn't upset about it. What was Evra doing up there anyways? Imagine Evra scoring a 1v1 with the keeper!
Actually that did cross my mind - had that been Van Persie maybe the ref would have considered it a clear goalscoring opportunity.. Although 'yellow or red' is a debate id be willing to have. 'foul or not' isnt - it was blatant. And the ref must have thought it was red and bottled it, to not give a foul. 'shot by ashley cole' - love it....
The thing that concerned me most was that his decisions just didnt make sense. You don't 'interprate' rules - you interprate what you believe to have happened and apply the rules. What rule in existance right now says RVP should have been booked for the Ramos incident? If, as the ref would have you believe, he is guilty of 'violent conduct' he should be sent off. If not, as roughly 100% of people who watched that game would agree, he shouldnt be booked and in fact Ramos should be booked for simulation. Take the Evra incident: What did the referee believe happened? Either he was fouled or he dived. What is the other option? If, as he seems to have believed, it wasnt a foul, then Evra dived and should be booked. If, as roughly 100% of people who watched that game would agree, it was a foul then you give the foul and either book or send off the defender (you could make an argument that Ramos was covering and Evra is not exactly a scoring machine, so the incident isnt clear cut. Not saying thats my opinion but the ref could justify it) Now take the Valencia incident: Well... see Van Persie. What did Valencia do that warrented a booking? And finally the Phil Jones penalty incident: It's either a penalty or a dive (particularly given the way the attacker went down) Actually really finally: A MINIMUM of 3 minutes added time. MINIMUM. Ref's have a hard job. They can be forgiven for not seeing things, hence me not banging on about the Ramos elbow (i will assume with good grace he didnt see it) They dont make it easy for themselves when they see incidents and dont apply the rules correctly. In each incident I described, the ref bottled it. Gave the middle ground so not as to upset anybody too much and so as to not make a big, controversial decision. Well Im sorry but its the refs job to make 'controversial' decisions if what happens on the pitch demands it. 0/10. must try harder.
While the Evra/Varane incident was the most blatant decision he bottled, that Valencia/Ramos one was probably the strangest for me. The ref blows his whistle, he seems to speak to Valencia as he walks past him and that looked to be the end of it, Valencia walks away, the ref then walks to Ramos, clearly leans over and looks down at him, see's he is holding his face and then decided to call Valencia back and pulls out the yellow card. If he thought it was a foul that warranted a card in the first place, why not call Valencia over to produce the card when he first spoke to him? If he didn't think it was an offense worthy of a card until he see's Ramos holding his face then he clearly didn't see the incident properly at all and made his decision based on a players reaction, and producing a card based on a players reaction is shocking officiating.
Exactly, but its doubly shocking officiating. Because if, as you correctly point out, he is basing his decision on Ramos' reaction, I again beg the question - WHAT is he punishing Valencia for? If he believes Valencia is responsible for makign Ramos roll around on the floor like he has been punched by Lennox Lewis, he has to send Valencia off. The other two options are do nothing because you havent seen the incident (fair enough) or book Ramos for a clear, cynical act of cynical gamesmanship. But then asking a European referee to book an El Classico player for simulation is a bit like asking Cristiano Ronaldo to go 10 games without scoring isnt it....,
In the first half on a corner or free kick or something, Ramos came down and caught Evans in the head with his elbow, wasn't a foul imo.
I am a neutral . Here are my thoughts on the incidents in the game: Van Persie - Not a yellow. Jones - Shoulder to shoulder but arguably used too much force. depends on the ref but would have been a soft penalty (not a penalty for me). Foul on Evra - Obvious foul by defender and red. Ramos - Should have been sent off early on for deliberately elbowing Evans in the back of the head in box (and penalty). Also other occasions where he could have picked up a yellow. Valencia - Not really any intent but clumsy. Yellow and foul for me. Corner - Farce at end. Corner should have been taken. I was looking at clock and it hadn't reached 93:00
